Intel declares war on free WiFi, wants to use regulation to allow telco/cable to charge us for everthing

5G should mean the death of cable and telco providers, instead Intel has this base station vision of 5G that will enable the obsolete toll road to charge us for everything we do. Its time to sluff off this parasitic.

This is the premium discriminatory data providers way of keeping the potential of FOSS and its hardware equivalent’s from ever being realized and in keeping the current sponsor based regime in power.

Instead of an internet of things based on a spectrum fused free mesh think of this as charge and track mesh.

The challenge we face is having our money work directly for us through cord cutting. But alway they want to trap our money to trap us in centralized money gambling schemes (‘investments’) that boil down to us being in debt through artificial scarcity.

Its Tesla vs Edison, a toll in this sense is a private tax. But its not your neighbor taxing you its a billionaire.

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From an ideology free standpoint, something like this is the logical next step: omnipresent, super fast, seamless access; people will be willing to pay for it, so why not make them?

Of course, I would prefer a more bottom-up approach, with mesh networks working together, people sharing bandwidth, etc; I hope some smart kid will come up with something that can stand up to the challenge. The problem is that big companies own all the backbones, and you can’t really substitute them; one can’t just go lay a transatlantic cable…

I recently switched from copper line based ADSL to 4G. The speed went from 3mb to 20mb in my rural location. I even managed to get a 116gb per month data limit, for about £12 per month extra all in (line rental + broadband).

When they say 5g is to be 100 times faster than 4g, with sub-millisecond latency, I am struggling to see why people would bother with cables. My landline was expensive and terribly slow. No doubt 5g data costs would be orders of magnitude lower too, making the old copper lines even worse in comparison.


Copper is a thing of past. I still don’t understand why people are still building new homes with copper wires. Come on, just add fiber optics, or cat6 for couple hundred dollars more. It is worth it in the long term. Tearing it all down, then put new wires up would be tremendously expensive.

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I hear you but they want the medium to be a market and I think we need it to be a commons. Its enough that we pay them for the handsets, and might pay for some transcontinental at least in the short run, but we want access and at least the equivalent of ownership and control over this universal mediym, but they want to oen ans control it and make money from arbitrary power to deny us access. Its an un upside down fear based model. Its certainly one that isn’t even a dumb pipe, their tracking everything for charge means they can accumulate and threaten people with data out of context.

Dumb down our schools, sugar up our food to spread anxiety or fear to make control easier, capture and propagandize our media, spread addiction but make illegal or further dim down prescription psych meds, its all control, control, control and I think people grow tired of having to work more to fuel more control and loss of freedom. Its like work harder to lose your freedom. Its a little tricky here because their versiob of 5G is promising a sensory and data nervonic ocean so its not immediatly clear that the cost of admission is domination.

But the great thing is 5G plus IOT and SAFE is the strongest cord cutting tech we’ve ever had. We will cut their cord and pull their plug and throw away the plug end.

They keep thinking they are on some sort of trajectory like a Moore’s law of control like going from prison cities to wallless platations where the slaves can’t run because of the color of their skin to wage slavery to the ubiquetious spy and charge net, but they’re wrong because psychologically and against all our righteous learned helplessness and conditioning we are actually ready to take them on and win- that’s what I see in the millenials. We aren’t going to silenced on this over some global legal framework like the TPP.

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Go ahead and tear it down, you could liberate all that copper, and copper is the driver metal in so much crucial industrial chemistry. Fiber has to be so much cheaper it makes no sense.
And we already have a dark ocean of fiber, but it should be fiber to the door and recycle the copper.

Wifi is a health risk and is on the way out. Studies conclusively have proven that wifi damages DNA, along with cell phone radiation. This isn’t FUD but fact. 5G will be even worse. However, Lifi will destroy the telcos and Wifi services. Lifi is no more dangerous than a light bulb in theory, and is many times faster than Wifi and most wired services.

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My problem with your argument is that it assumes these things are about human rights. No, these things are about stuff people buy and sell: whoever has the stuff (or the service), they can sell it for however much they decide. You think it’s unfair or expensive? You won’t buy it.

It’s not slavery as long as you are free to get away. You say “walless prisons,” but is it, really? If your situation is the result of thinking “but I have no choice” then the prison is not from the outside (“them”) but from the inside; you can’t blame anybody for your learned helplessness, because literally nobody can stop you from unlearn it, if you decide to do so.

But the real problem is that (the scum half of) the rich and the powerful can game the system, and that’s what needs to be solved, not these random symptoms; anything that take the focus off of the real thing is just noise that works against the real cause.

But I confess I don’t believe this problem (“the rich and the powerful corrupt the system so they can game it”) will, or even can, be solved: there are enough corrupted rich and powerful who will make it pretty much impossible, sorry.

Btw I think this topic is definitely “off topic”, not just “other projects.”

Studies conclusively have proven that wifi damages DNA [citation needed] :scream_cat:

  1. Atasoy H.I. et al., 2013. Immunohistopathologic demonstration of
    deleterious effects on growing rat testes of radiofrequency waves
    emitted from conventional Wi-Fi devices. Journal of Pediatric Urology
    9(2): 223-229.
  2. Avendaño C. et al., 2012. Use of laptop computers connected to
    internet through Wi-Fi decreases human sperm motility and increases
    sperm DNA fragmentation. Fertility and Sterility 97(1): 39-45.
  3. Avendaño C. et al., 2010. Laptop expositions affect motility and
    induce DNA fragmentation in human spermatozoa in vitro by a non-thermal
    effect: a preliminary report. American Society for Reproductive Medicine
    66th Annual Meeting: O-249
  4. Aynali G. et al., 2013. Modulation of wireless (2.45 GHz)-induced
    oxidative toxicity in laryngotracheal mucosa of rat by melatonin. Eur
    Arch Otorhinolaryngol 270(5): 1695-1700.
  5. Gumral N. et al., 2009. Effects of selenium and L-carnitine on
    oxidative stress in blood of rat induced by 2.45-GHz radiation from
    wireless devices. Biol Trace Elem Res. 132(1-3): 153-163.
  6. Havas M. et al., 2010. Provocation study using heart rate
    variability shows microwave radiation from 2.4GHz cordless phone affects
    autonomic nervous system. European Journal of Oncology Library Vol. 5:
    273-300. part 2.
  7. Havas M. and Marrongelle J. 2013. Replication of heart rate
    variability provocation study with 2.45GHz cordless phone confirms
    original findings. Electromagn Biol Med 32(2): 253-266.
  8. Maganioti A. E. et al., 2010. Wi-Fi electromagnetic fields exert
    gender related alterations on EEG. 6th International Workshop on
    Biological Effects of Electromagnetic fields.
  9. Margaritis L.H. et al., 2013. Drosophila oogenesis as a bio-marker
    responding to EMF sources. Electromagn Biol Med., Epub ahead of print.
  10. Naziroğlu M. and Gumral 2009. Modulator effects of L-carnitine
    and selenium on wireless devices (2.45 GHz)-induced oxidative stress and
    electroencephalography records in brain of rat. Int J Radiat Biol.
    85(8): 680-689.
  11. Nazıroğlu M. et al., 2012. 2.45-Gz wireless devices induce
    oxidative stress and proliferation through cytosolic Ca2+ influx in
    human leukemia cancer cells. International Journal of Radiation Biology
    88(6): 449–456.
  12. Nazıroğlu M. et al., 2012b. Melatonin modulates wireless (2.45
    GHz)-induced oxidative injury through TRPM2 and voltage gated Ca(2+)
    channels in brain and dorsal root ganglion in rat. Physiol Behav.
    105(3): 683-92.
  13. Oksay T. et al., 2012. Protective effects of melatonin against
    oxidative injury in rat testis induced by wireless (2.45 GHz) devices.
    Andrologia doi: 10.1111/and.12044, Epub ahead of print.
  14. Papageorgiou C. C. et al., 2011. Effects of Wi-Fi signals on the
    p300 component of event-related potentials during an auditory hayling
    task. Journal of Integrative Neuroscience 10(2): 189-202.
    (Wi-Fi alters brain activity in young adults:
  15. Shahin S. et al., 2013. 2.45 GHz Microwave Irradiation-Induced
    Oxidative Stress Affects Implantation or Pregnancy in Mice, Mus
    musculus. Appl Biochem Biotechnol 169: 1727–1751.
  16. Türker Y. et al., 2011. Selenium and L-carnitine reduce oxidative
    stress in the heart of rat induced by 2.45-GHz radiation from wireless
    devices. Biol Trace Elem Res. 143(3): 1640-1650.

And here are a few more studies of similar microwave frequencies at low exposures (6V/m or below) (this is not comprehensive):
17. Balmori A. 2010. Mobile phone mast effects on common frog (Rana
temporaria) tadpoles: the city turned into a laboratory. Electromagn.
Biol. Med. 29(1-2):31-35.
18. Erdinc O. O. et al., 2003. Electromagnetic waves of 900MHz in
acute pentylenetetrazole model in ontogenesis in mice. Neurol. Sci.
19. Fesenko E. E. et al., 1999. Stimulation of murine natural killer
cells by weak electromagnetic waves in the centimeter range. Biofizika
20. Fesenko E. E. et al., 1999. Microwaves and cellular immunity. I.
Effect of whole body microwave irradiation on tumor necrosis factor
production in mouse cells, Bioelectrochem. Bioenerg. 49:29–35
21. Havas M. et al., 2010. Provocation study using heart rate
variability shows microwave radiation from 2.4GHz cordless phone affects
autonomic nervous system. European Journal of Oncology Library Vol. 5:
273-300 part 2.
22. Kesari K. K. and Behari J., 2009. Microwave exposure affecting
reproductive system in male rats. Appl. Biochem. Biotechnol.
23. Kesari K. K. and Behari J., 2009. Fifty-gigahertz microwave
exposure effect of radiations on rat brain. Appl. Biochem. Biotechnol.
24. Khurana V. G. et al., 2010. Epidemiological Evidence for a Health
Risk from Mobile Phone Base Stations. Int. J. Occup. Environ. Health
25. Maier R. et al., 2004. Effects of pulsed electromagnetic fields
on cognitive processes – a pilot study on pulsed field interference with
cognitive regeneration. Acta Neurologica Scandinavica 110: 46-52
26. Nittby H. et al., 2008. Cognitive impairment in rats after
long-term exposure to GSM-900 mobile phone radiation.
Bioelectromagnetics 29: 219-232
27. Novoselova E. G. et al., 1998. Stimulation of production of tumor
necrosis factor by murine macrophages when exposed in vivo and in vitro
to weak electromagnetic waves in the centimeter range Bofizika
28. Novoselova E. G. et al., 1999. Microwaves and cellular immunity.
II. Immunostimulating effects of microwaves and naturally occurring
antioxidant nutrients. Bioelectrochem. Bioenerg. 49:37–41
29. Otitoloju A. A. et al., 2010. Preliminary study on the induction
of sperm head abnormalities in mice, Mus musculus, exposed to
radiofrequency radiations from Global System for Mobile Communication
Base Stations. Bull. Environ. Contam. Toxicol. 84(1):51-4.
30. Panagopoulos D. al., 2010. Bioeffects of mobile telephony
radiation in relation to its intensity or distance from the antenna.
Int. J. Radiat. Biol. Vol 86(5):345-357.
31. Persson B. R. R. et al., 1997. Blood-brain barrier permeability
in rats exposed to electromagnetic fields used in wireless
communication. Wireless Networks 3: 455-461.
32. Pyrpasopoulou A. et al., 2004. Bone morphogenic protein
expression in newborn kidneys after prenatal exposure to radiofrequency
radiation. Bioelectromagnetics 25:216-27
33. Salford L. G. et al., 2010. Effects of microwave radiation upon
the mammalian blood-brain barrier. European Journal of Oncology Library
Vol. 5:333-355 part 2.
34. Salford L. G., et al., 2003. Nerve cell damage in mammalian brain
after exposure to microwaves from GSM mobile phones. Environ. Health
Perspect. 111:881-883.

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thanks! btw the lifi thing sounds interesting

Glad to be of service. Yes Li-Fi is being tested in Saudi Arabia this year. By 2020 it will be big business and everywhere from cell phones to tvs to laptops. Even now it works for download, but most cell phones can’t transmit yet. Special hardware will need to be integrated into next gen phones. Once that happens say goodbye to cell phone bills and all the other telco nonsense. Maidsafe could really benefit from Li-Fi as well.

@Kagetoki In some threads from a couple year’s ago there seemed to be some consensus around LiFi doing just that. It started with a consideration of free space optical which is about 30% faster than fiber but straight and then moved to everything have LiFi, harder to jam without dust or EMP or something like that or may just dust in some cases. So LiFi must be added to the mesh array, we will take every part of the EM opportunistically that is practical, stuff tends to get straight line as you go up the spectrum but now there is LiFi that can even read indirectly as light is bounced. Soon all you have to do is aim an outside home light at a piece of ground that you neighbor aims the same light at, day night it doesn’t matter in it invisible low light mode works just as good, that alone would link every track, couple it to some free space optical links and that links every city. Not to mention light poles and cars which will link every county and state. Low Earth orbit sat long flight drones or some public transoceanic fiber to link continents, but even that could be a back up with phones on planes and ships, or it could be primary. As this stuff comes on line it creates a total spectrum glut.

@tim87 we out number at least 99 to one probably more like 1000 to 1. When you have 7.5 billion the intellect, the will, the insight, the wisdom will always arise in the base. More than that it will always arise in the next generation. As far as learned helplessness their war is always against the next generation as children hence their marketing of sugar cereal to children, medication through additives (sugar being the main one- creates anxiety keeps people in fear) and dumbing down school or trying to limit access to college and beyond that its always a propagandist fear and control of the narrative and its always one way top down enemy without distraction crap. So no human rights always preempts everything else especially money and markets and any power derived from that, that’s why I say its a commons, it always belongs to us no matter what. .

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