Inescapable centralisation?


I’m new here. First post. I like this initiative, and hope to join a next testing phase. It’s interesting to watch these new developments :slight_smile:

My thoughts/question: will SAFE not become more or less centralised in a few main nodes after a while, because of the same Demand/Supply dynamics that seem to rule free trade? Because of the (financial) reward system, the early adopters vs. rest of people: users will be encouraged to submit as much resources to the network as possible, to earn more SAFEcoin. This is somehow good for the network, but also bad? This means people and organizations, companies will be encouraged to submit (and gather SAFEcoin) a lot more than a regular user can. Users who already own a lot (of money, computing power, bandwith) will be rewarded for it, people who own little will struggle to pay for their use of apps on the network. Which might lead to a centralisation of power within the network, despite the central idea of SAFE aiming for decentralization.

How do you people feel about this? What do you think?


Technically, I think yes.

However they have to hoodwink the network that their resources are many nodes’ resources, as the network will penalize too small and too large nodes.


One more thing, I think we should not think the internet at the time SAFENetwork goes live to be of the current fashion. It is highly possible that we will see the decentralization of network bandwidth where the internet bandwidth is so cheap and ubiquitous. When the time comes, SAFENetwork will achieve its own objective, to provide a free and decentralized internet.


That shouldnt be the case as the farming rate of safecoin should counter that very aspect. So in essence rewards in safecoin should correspond very much to the demand for storage space and just overloading one should not be incentivised by the farming rate.

This would thereby be the opposite if there is a lot more free storage in the system than being required real time. So if there is surplus storage space in the network, creating data(storing data) will become rather cheap and the rate of yield for safecoin for vaults will be minimal and more users should be able to actually use the network a lot easier


And to put another way

Those with much help those with little.

The more spare resources added makes it cheaper to store. And those who add a lot get less. (well everyone get less for farming)

Lets see, ummmm, its free to use the network. APPs are read from the network for free, so playing angry birds is free

Now if high scores are to be stored then the above applies, the more spare resources supplied by the “rich” makes it cheaper for everyone to store including the “poorer”. From the RFC it’ll likely cost 3 PUTs to store high scores costing about 0.0000000000000001 SAFEcoin per PUT when the “rich” are oversupplying.


It seems like centralised network - resources in hands of couple “rich”, the “poor” using them. I think I’ve seen it before…


When launched, it will be possible to provide resources and farm Safecoin with a reasonable internet connection and commodity PCs as opposed to some other projects and technologies that require expensive and specialist hardware. This paper will provide more info. Which aspect of the farming economics causes you to feel that SAFE will become centralised?


Crosslinking other threads on the topic:


By changing the size of your vault, do you not lose your “elder” privileges and have to start again in the ageing process? Thus defeating the point of the resizing?


Ah the links help provide context. It’s not clear how the OP in the bandwidth thread reached the conclusion so hard to comment on that. Bandwidth performance is not static and is improving all the time with both different technologies and suppliers. Locally we don’t have data caps (although I have heard this is an issue in parts of the US/Canada) and speeds have increased dramatically in recent years and so as the amount of data on the network increases I would anticipate our ability to serve the data as farmers will follow.

To the second point, there are thought to be over 1 billion connected desktop and laptops/NAS devices in the world, and while I think faming probably will take place on a commercial scale inside data centres (great resource for the network), it will have some way to go to outgun the world’s connected population.


Enter my SAFE Network (Safe) x Duniter (Basic Income) x Euro (Nationalised) cryptomint project.
Problem solved.