I don't know how to answer this question on Blockchain tech

Regarding Maidsafe not using the blockchain I said this: (A quote from someone here on the forum)

“MaidSafe does not use blockchain tech. It use a distributed hash
(Kademlia) table, similar to Bittorrent. It is used as a routing layer.
All nodes and all data chunks have their own 512 bit address in this
"ExclusiveOR space”.

“Decentralist” said:

“Do they not tie this into a ledger with tokens backed by
crystallographic proof though? To me that’s what a blockchain is, a
distributed ledger back by crypto and tokens.”

What should my response be? Or if you would like to jump in:

I am a bit of an idiot for not knowing who that quote came from and also plagiarizing it

Why don’t you invite “Decentralist” to create an SAFE account and get to know about the SAFE Network?

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:smile: I wish it were that easy. Also, SAFE accounts don’t exist yet??

From my basic (maybe ignorant) understanding. Blockchain is a public ledger that provides proof of transaction. Yes, perhaps I haven’t researched it enough. Maidsafe doesn’t use blockchain because it disregards anonymity. “Decentralist”'s tech speak completely loses me. Actually now that I think about it I could probably find posts here that answer my question. But, really his question, to me doesn’t make sense… “distributed ledger back[ed] by crypto and tokens.” ??? What do I say to that? Um, backed by crypto???

I guess, as always, I have much to learn. It is great for me but, not for spreading the word. I feel there are a lot of technical unanswerable regular Joe questions that compromise the promise of SAFE.

In order for me to spread the word of SAFE I need to be technical, this to me is a problem to spread the word. I am a regular Joe+1. Something needs to be simplified IMO. I have no idea what

Please look at https://voat.co/v/technology/comments/106986 to see what I am saying.

It takes a lot of time and effort for me to do that. I in the past made an attempt to translate the whitepaper into French. @nowfeelsafer fortunately took over for me because my life took over. I appreciate him/her doing that. I felt bad. We can’t expect person’s to make accounts or to have to do research to find answers they may have, most don’t work like that. If it is not in front of them forget about it.

I mean an safenetforum.org account. If you invite people to come on over it can never hurt, it only grows the community and if they are really curious they’ll find the answers.

You don’t really need to be technical, don’t try to get technical if you didn’t soak up enough knowledge yet. These topics are really complex. Maybe this vid might help in the blockchain talk.

It’s admirable that your doing your best, try to let people learn about stuff by exploring. That way they learn more, if you point them to this forum, they can slowly begin to soak up more.

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Also, I think this post that @polpolrene just posted can help. Sentinel for beginners.

The transfer of safecoin is just a special case of this type of consensus, overseeing and verifying the transfer from the (cryptographically provable) current owner to the new owner, as directed by the current owner. This is my understanding, anyway.

EDIT: I think that people who are really into the blockchain technology have a hard time seeing a completely different model. For most of the world, the blockchain is the first that the “Byzantine Generals’ Problem” had been solved, so I think it sort of takes on the status of an ultimate answer in their minds.

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The following blog posts should also help: http://metaquestions.me/2014/02/15/bitcoin-blockchain-is-not-a-thing-its-a-design-pattern/ and http://blog.maidsafe.net/2015/01/29/consensus-without-a-blockchain/. Happy reading!

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Thanks for the help everyone. Gotta love this forum!

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We had a discussion about this before, with David Irvine and others, on this forum. He gave a great explanation, and you can find it if you search.

But I’ll just summarize it anyway.

Bitcoin network works because all the transactions are traceable and public forever.

SafeCoin is just a small part of the SAFE Network. Everything is private, and no coin is ever tracked, not even by the network itself (well, they are, but only back to the previous owner. Never further back than that).

The reason this works is because we all are logging into and using the same instance of the SAFE Network, so whatever the SAFE Network says goes. If it says you have 50 SafeCoins, you have 50 SafeCoins. And that’s that.

So since we are all on the unhackable SAFE Network, there is no need for a public ledger like bitcoin. It’s the best of both worlds.

Do you get it?

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ok i read many articles before and just want to get things straight in my mind

I know we had many discussions in this forum about this topic but i never saw an answer that pointed out things as clear as i would have wanted it :wink:

safecoin consists of groups of 32 nodes and these nodes are the consensus group. so if you really would be able to control the right 32 nodes (28 of them need to agree) you would be able to do bad stuff … right?
Every user gets a random ID in XOR-Space when he logs in - and these groups therefore change with users logging in and out and you yourself can’t control in which group you’ll end up. So you can’t influence the group-building and group-maintenance … but in fact we still are talking (in contrast to bitcoin with 51% globally) about a 88% majority locally that (in theory) could do bad things …?

Yes, so to get that you need to be adding nodes and block any other nodes being added at that time. So looking at that if you have a network of 700 nodes you need to add about 2000 bad nodes and make sure nobody else is adding nodes to get this attack figure. It also misses a lot of additional features, but over 50% is pretty hard to understand, thanks to xor we can do this as it’s anon linear address space.

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I believe I do @whiteoutmashups. Thanks for the feedback. Tonight I have more reading to do to get a fuller understanding, your summarization helps me get a grip. Cheers.

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