Even when safecoin is connected to such a strong use case, do you guys think people will be willing to jump the KYC hoops and be a trader (even if its just for 1 trade) to get involved? Of course you could get safecoin by contributing resources to the network but that really just gives the category of people that have resources available to contribute a way in. Would be nice if there could be a non-KYC required market just for safecoin since it could be argued its just a token for this pinball machine not a speculative crypto. Like I don’t have to do KYC to buy a giftcard for starbucks. Anyways I think this might be a major roadblock to real mass adoption cause its a point where you have to really do some work and maybe wait a bit. I would argue the vast majority want to fire this thing up and start using it like right away.
One idea I just had was what if there was a market for safecoin where you have to do KYC to sell but to buy you don’t. The catch is that safecoin is now tied to your userid and can only be used to buy network resources, not resell. I think in that case you could argue the buyers are really just buying a gift certificate that can only be redeemed on “one thing” and are not well designed to launder large amounts of money.
As adoption increases the person to person buying/selling of coins will increase too. As far as I know no country requires recording of singular buy/sell of a small object under one or ?more? hundred dollars.
And you basically said it when mentioning giftcards.
SAFEcoin is not a security and is a payment for resources. Yes if you farm then it could be considered income if it is enough for the particular tax laws you are required to follow. I think most if not all tax laws do not include a hundred or so dollars of income from something like this. The reason being then you can claim the computer as expenses and the tax man pays you.
So for the very small number of coins friends etc buy or sell for the purposes of “adoption” (buy resources or buy items across SAFE) will not fall under any normal laws that require KYC.
I am not a lawyer, but I have run my own business and done my own books. Different countries have different laws but usually a common thread runs through these laws since the purpose of the laws are similar. Obviously there will be exceptions.
Since SAFEcoin is not a security then it will usually be treated as any other ordinary item with some value. Buy/sell enough of it on a personal basis and you will need to report it for tax purposes. Join an exchange and you probably need KYC. Buy/sell a few hundred dollars on a personal basis (incl farming) per year and tax people ignore it because of the ability to then claim expenses against it.
In Australia the tax department considers an activity (different to occupation) a hobby until it earns profit over a certain amount (was 5K 30 years ago and from memory its 10K now). Some particular activities have additional rules like buying/selling cars where your allowed IIRC 1 car every 3 months and the profit is under ???. For securities its considered normal income if any amount of profit is made.
For anyone in the UK on any of the means tested benefits (housing benefit, council tax benefit, pension credit etc,) the amount that you can receive as ‘income’ before it affects your benefit is £10.00 per week. A lump sum (one off) payment would be classed as ‘capital’ but regular or irregular money in is counted as ‘income’. Any income has to be declared, and any income over £10.00 per week is deducted pound for pound from any means tested benefits.
The position for tax is that ‘income’ is always taxable if the amount you have coming in from all sources is currently above the minimum tax threshold. So if you are paying tax now, when you fill in a tax return you should declare all income. Whilst this may be the law, it is often ignored in practice. For example, those selling the odd things on eBay are not generally caught out, but those who do so on a regular bases often find they eventually get get tax demand letter in which HMRC have estimated unpaid tax.
peer to peer is nice and no way to enforce KYC on that for sure. I wish there was some way to not have to go anywhere though… just login and buy some small amount of safecoin and start uploading family photos or something. I do agree its really about the amount. If you are getting enough to buy a few gigs of storage you prolly arn’t some criminal mastermind laundering drug money. If you trade lots you might be and rightly should be subjected to KYC. I would really think it could help if they would build into the network a way to send someone safecoin but tag it as unmovable after that (except to buy network resources.) Problem with trying to be like ok just small amounts are fine, is people will find ways to accumulate many small amounts to launder money potentially. If it changes to gift certificate only form its no longer liquid for cash and you can really say this is absolutely only usable as points in our game.
It is similar here too, I was really only considering Tax rather than social benefits and you are correct.
What about selling them on eBay or other online store. They are just like a giftcard except you are not storing FIAT value on the card but receiving SAFEcoin to use for buying resources or commerce over SAFE. Give the seller your SAFEcoin address and the “cash” and receive coins into the address.
If you are worried about someone knowing the SAFEcoin address then use a new address and then move the coins after receiving them.
thing is it will kinda be a store of FAIT value if there is a liquid market. There is no real problem with this at all except criminals like things that are highly liquid for fait to launder money. I don’t think ebay lets you sell bitcoin and I think they would be likely to view safecoin as too risque…heck you can’t even sell items in online video games on ebay any more. I do think there are solutions but it will require more then just letting it out in the wild and be like go sell this and hope the government doesn’t come knocking at your door:P At the same time these solutions have to keep the user experience friendly for people that just want to use the network and not go on some crazy adventure to acquire the safecoin they need to do that.