Does this mean DBC potentially won’t be built atop AT2? Curious what the pros and cons of either or in that situation are.
It is but … not requiring wallets across sections with history.
To mint a DBC there are a few checks each Elder makes,
is is spent (should not be)
is the parent spent (must be)
do outputs <= input values
Then each elder signs with a share. The holder aggregates the sigs (at2 like) and job is done (mostly, we will document the code, on mint request we lock that and hold a state to force the holder to give us the spent token, this prevent him for spending twice, there is more though)
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Are you KIDDING ME? Not necessary? Do you have any idea how valuable DBCs are? They would change the SAFE network from a strictly online network into something anyone on the street could use and participate in. One of the biggest complaints I hear about the internet is people without a device are excluded from it or that new apps are something only “young people” know how to use but EVERYONE can learn how to exchange pieces of paper for goods and services. The hard part is just cashing those DBCs in using your phone and destroying them when they’re no longer valid. I think the biggest problem would be that DBCs are more akin to cheques or gift cards than cash and therefore are limited in the same way. They are single use items. And just as cheques are suspect so might DBCs become suspect but for different reasons. A cheque is suspect because it might bounce. A DBC might have issues because one wouldn’t know if it was valid or not. Would there be a way to scan a DBC for it’s validity without cashing it? To see if it was “still good” so to speak?
Contrary to popular belief there are privacy advantages to doing things in meat space. Also some people prefer doing things physically as well. That’s why I think there will be great advantages to having DBCs available.
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I wrote that 6 months ago. I asked for advice on the topic. My implication was perhaps it wasn’t necessary for the time being while trying to get the network running. Take a breath.
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There still can be for sure and I’ve thought on that a little. The flip side is there are increasingly more and more cameras, we all carry cell phones and many peoples are always listening, look at the data a Tesla car collects, if everyone started driving those forget not being seen with someone else in public. Even in meat space you have to be very contentious. With Safe Network (online) at least you know your comms and digital identity are secure and private so then you just have to worry about hardware and closing the blinds.
Not that I disagree with you on this particular point but there are pros and cons to both but I think more choices are always more indicative to freedom.
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It’s an interesting point.
What would be the use case for wanting to check the validity of a DBC _without_cashing it? Wouldn’t that be the check in itself, the same way as a cheque?
My knee-jerk answer is, yes there could be, but I’m more interested in the use-case.
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While I’ve got y’all here… I’m doing some work at the moment exploring and fleshing out the UX flows around DBCs, how they’ll be created, redeemed, exchanged etc.
I’m looking at the language of it, so having a little brainstorm of what to call them to differentiate them from just a regular, instant, payment/transfer of tokens.
What’s everyone’s instant thoughts? Looking for something that neatly and best describes their character and use, without resorting to gimicks.
Initial thoughts being:
- Gift certificate
- Cheque
- Credit note
- Paper token
Etc Etc.
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If the Dbc is made out to you (i.e. a key you own), only you can cash it the sender has allocated the funds to you. Unless you share the private key for those funds, then they are there.
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Promissory Safe Note
A promissory note is a financial instrument that contains a written promise by one party (the note’s issuer or maker) to pay another party (the note’s payee) a definite sum of money
Replace money with token
Yeah, so that’s the test “can I cash this?” you check if you can by cashing, and you have the funds, the sender doesn’t anymore.
But would there be a way to answer the questions “can I cash this?” without making the funds yours. And why would I want to do that?
You don’t need to cash if you are sure only you have the private key of the owner the Dbc is made out to. You do need to confirm the parent was cashed though.
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The only reason I can think of is because you want to be sure you have the money without it increasing the balance in your account.
Why? Well it seems like the applications are to hide wealth, which might have honourable uses but most obviously would help with criminal activities including money laundering and tax evasion.
Clearly attractive to some who won’t think of themselves as criminals because they see taxation as criminal, which maybe it can be, or at least it can be unjust.
I can imagine people liking the idea of being issued a DBC with their SNT on conversion from MAID and being able to keep that secret until they choose to move it to a wallet. All though I’m not sure if there’s any advantage here compared to just keeping the wallet secret.
In fact I may be wrong in thinking there will be wallets any more. Can’t we just use DBCs and choose to either keep them offline or in a Safe? And spend directly from either a DBC entirely offline (minting a new DBC), or minting online from one held in a Safe? Are DBCs the new wallets?
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From a Safe Network UX design perspective Wallets thus far have really been predominantly about giving people a way to order, organise, and segment access to their Safe Network tokens.
What a Folder is to Files so a Wallet is to Tokens.
So from that perspective, I’d expect them to remain, and be very useful.
They are not technically require for transfers, payments, and ownership etc. to happen though.
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To me the beautiful thing about DBC’s is they are a flexible and fungible chameleon technology that can exist on or offline.
So they can be whatever you want depending on it’s application.
I think a great first introduction is the gift certificate, or preloaded account.
I’ll start brainstorming more though because I think there may be a better way to say what a DBC is that explains it’s broad flexibility and functionality but hopefully without sounding too technical.
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A little riddle. Up for anyone. cc: @JimCollinson
What is something common that people can possess that is theirs and only theirs until they pass it to another person? It can harbor info, proof, value inside of it.
I’ve got a couple of simple words that could work as branding of sorts that should generally define. I would welcome a very technical description but the most accurate already exists, Digital Bearer Certificate. So relate to real life objects or concepts that anyone should understand. Something with purpose or meaning.
Invisible check/cheque.
Digital promise.
Electronic cash.
Safe stash.
--- Purse
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This. Very close to my personal favorite I came up with.
PACT
Pact in a thesaurus comes up with deal, contract, etc. So I think it’s a decent.
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Genes 
.
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I wonder if that would seem too personal? 
Of course it’s probably because my mind is always half in the gutter.
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