How should SAFEcoin be available for purchase?

Let’s assume the SAFE MVP has been developed, beta tested, and released. SAFE appears to deliver and its userbase is growing. While reading from SAFE is free, writing to SAFE costs SAFEcoin.

  1. How do people buy SAFEcoin?
  2. When farmers and others have excess SAFEcoin, how do they sell it?

Note: This topic is not intended to address:

A. Obtaining SAFEcoin outside of purchase such as mining.
B. The process for redeeming MAID pre-tokens as SAFEcoin.
C. Advocacy of implementing a near-term ERC-20 wrapper token.

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How did people buy and sell Bitcoin before there were exchanges?

At the moment, my hope is that when we have MVP intermediaries will appear to release ERC20 safecoins tokens for our Safe Network so that we can be part of the market.

My main concern is whether there are enough people here willing to spend their safecoins to upload information to the network. If there are, then the network will grow. If not, we will have to bring in people who are willing to spend and use the network.

So we will have to hand out free safecoin :love:

Exchanges
OTC
Something as yet undeveloped.

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It might be extra incentive to farm and much of the UI for MVE that Jim has worked up accommodates this. As you earn you might want to sell, accumulate, gift it for others to create accounts (also supported by MVE UI), or use it to pay for network storage/services. So we would really only be missing selling. Maybe it wouldn’t be so bad? We might not get wild speculation right off the bat but we could possibly get more farming up front and genuine interest and engagement? It’s an entirely different approach to anything else done that I’ve experienced so far. True Maidsafe fashion :smile:

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I think question 2 is the most important, unanswered question from a coin/investment/ERC20/price standpoint. In fact I think it renders question 1 moot as perhaps only an exchange can provide this service which would enable buying as well. Great questions, though, because maybe there are some creative solutions out there. Without the sell option the network will only grow economically as long as people accept SAFE as an IOU. At some point many will want to convert to dollars, pounds, euros, etc. to pay the bills.

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That’s a good point but the IOU is not so much an IOU as you can get utility in the form of network resources. As far as translating that value to fiat or any other currency outside of the SAFE economy then yeah, I agree.

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As I’ve previously mentioned,

(detailed comment by @danda) Also referred to as

Feedback, especially critical, on the purchase method is welcome.

@Dimitar

Do I understand your suggestion correctly that it is to offer bearer SAFEcoin wrapped in other token types, specifically as an ERC-20-wrapped token?

The basic user workflow being:

  1. Obtain wrapped token.
  2. Redeem wrapped token to SAFE for SAFEcoin, burning wrapped token.
  3. Use and/or convert SAFEcoin to wrapped token.

It is not a suggestion, but a conjecture. This is the most likely thing that will happen, according to the information I have now about the world around us. There is a huge functioning ecosystem around etherium. It is not 2014. Safecoin cannot exist in isolation and be successful.

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I see your point Dimitar. I don’t agree that it is so cut and dried, but it’s something to think about.

There are many ways this can play out and we can’t predict - or control - this game from where we are.

It’s been pointed out that we could end up strengthening the Ethereum ecosystem by giving it a head start in access to SAFE. Meanwhile it’s entirely possible IMO that SAFE could gain widespread popularity without it, and as I read this topic I just see more risks and fewer obvious benefits for the network, in having an alternative token.

I agree there may be short term benefits to another token, but I’m not convinced of the long term benefit to the network or that they’re worth the risks. I’m a little skeptical that the perceived benefits are being over estimated out of wishful thinking or fear.

Personally then, I’d rather Maidsafe focus on delivery, and the community focus on supporting that, followed by marketing preparation for Fleming and following that Maxwell/beta.

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I was talking about a third party doing this for us, not the company. This is the good option for us.

There are many smart people in Ethereum. Yes, there are no geniuses like David to come up with the concept of a Safe Network. But people are smart. They will see a successful project without the flaws of a blockchain.

In the good case, they will include us in the ecosystem, because there are billions locked up there.

In the bad case, they will fork us and include their Safe Network in the Ethereum ecosystem, so they will compete with us for farmers.

These are the extreme cases. We are more likely to have something in the middle, because the Ethereum people are not one community but many communities…

But, it’ll probably be more work for both exchanges and end users to have a middle man token such as this.

Setting aside the pre-launch MAID proxy token thing, why would it bring more people to the Network over just native Safecoin integration?

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Because people want access to DeFi. There you have decentralized exchanges. They are the future.

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@happybeing

It may be worth clarifying context; this topic is only about what purchase methods of SAFEcoin should be available and isn’t another near-term ERC-20 advocacy topic. Topic text updated to clarify context for everyone’s benefit.

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Why wouldn’t a decentralized exchange just integrate with safecoin natively?

Cheaper, faster, and easier for everyone, and ultimately would probably lead to far quicker uptake in safecoin. Why hitch ourselves to a slowing train?

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Because decentralized exchanges are smart contracts on the ethereum network. There are money there. Lots of money. Lots of liquidity. Lots of entry and exit ramps. There is no decentralized exchange for native safecoin…

It is not our choice…

I speculate that since there is no decentralized exchange for bitcoin and there are more erc20 bitcoin locked in the Ethereum network than in the lightning network, the same will happen with safecoin in the good scenarios for us.

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There are no exchanges for native safecoin yet, because there is no safecoin yet. But when it’s ready to go, all the APIs and the CLI will be right there for them to utilise, and integrate. So a user could buy safecoin directly in whichever currency they choose, not middle-coin involved.

I personally don’t think it is worthwhile planning in a workflow for the future that will already be the past by the time we get there.

When we get closer, I think we should be talking to exchanges about direct Safecoin integration, easy purchases of account invites, and ultimately building decentralised exchanges on the network itself… no blockchain required.

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Yes, you are right that a decentralized exchange will be built on the Safe Network someday. But before that happens, millions and millions of Safecoins are more likely to be locked into the Ethereum network as an ERC20 token, because people will want to trade right away and there is money, there are decentralized tested exchanges now, not in the future.

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Just to clarify, they won’t need to build a whole exchange on the network to do what I’m proposing.

Effectively all they will need is a wallet with some Safecoin in it, and for the customer to supply them with a receiving wallet address when they are given the required payment in the paired currency. That’s it. This is the CLI, it will be very simple.

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@JimCollinson one thing you might not be considering is because Safecoin isn’t native to ether I un and follow the same conventions of the ERC20 token standard that has built in smart contracting capabilities specifically for the ethereum network, then Safecoin would have to be wrapped or represented in or by and ERC20 standard token that identifies itself as Safecoin or whatever.

The main benefit would be tapping into a already developed ecosystem and the massive amount of attention and money there.

On the other hand, there is no reason why we can’t have smart contracts and a AT2 token standard (which we should eventually) so that it’s easy and scalable to tokenize on SAFE and when we have a smart contract library that works with any standard AT2 token then we could have our own DeFi ecosystem.

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