How confident are you that Maidsafe will deliver?


The network in each of the tests and alphas are autonomous. There is no human control over the network storing or signing up new people. The network works all this out for itself.

The human control over the network is to start or stop the network. But once anyone can run vaults then it requires most of the people running vaults (== nodes) to stop their vaults. In any case the network is operating autonomously

Where the work is to be done is to add features and make the network stable long term.


Think thats another topic.

Personally im not worried they wont deliver. No.

( edited for clarity)


great read thanks 4 the detailed info


Near the Bay? If so you dive off the red bridge, bam safecoin awaits you at the bottom.


If you have the time, could you please elaborate on this? E.g. I’m not even sure how one quantifies surveillance.


I can try,

So with SAFE you have the ability for people to be secured and not tracked. The latter part was also available on the current web, let’s ignore security and privacy for a second though.

So in a new web, devs can create great apps with zero infrastructure costs (a difference) and be paid by the network if their app is successful (another difference).

However! if an app is good, say really good and creates a large company with a lot of staff and “professionals” then it may enter a phase of not profit-seeking, but profit maximisation. To do that it adds tracking components to it’s code, it may even try and download to your computer a cookie type thing (not impossible) and then we are almost back at square 1.

It is our hope that with open source solutions and the zero infrastructure costs, then these apps will be constantly challenged and none become huge, but a huge number become used! This part is again why SOLID etc. is so important (thanks again @happybeing for being so active here).

So our solution is not so much we offer privacy, security, and freedom (although we do in it’s most basic form), but we supply a network that promotes that and heavily influences staying like that. People and corporates can still win over folk with apps that will take away these rights, I do hope humanity has moved beyond that, but we will see :wink: It’s gonna be a very interesting time, I suspect the days of the mega-corporate will be over and it’s the time of humans to rule once more :wink:


Yesterday, a new blockchain project has released an interesting solution to this. In their project, the Dapp that generates transactions will receive 50% of them…

We will integrate the first true shared economy blockchain, where 50% of the transaction fees that are generated by tokens, will be reimbursed back to the wallet of the ERC20 smart contracts of those same tokens.


Be great to see more of this, the OSS community of devs needs it to really flourish.


Funny if in SAFE apps there is a “see our advantage” tab sometimes included where they highlight quoted fine print of corporate competitor user agreements and link to evidence of all the bad behavior implications and ramifications thus creating visibility for the bad behavior and its accretion. Need to have lawyers vet this, but people have to know what for instance FB on SAFE would be trying to pull.
This can be done in grids with check boxes to compare the bad behavior in a way that is highest common denominator. SAFE itself on a competitive basis with say block chain tech does some of this pro/con.

Might be problematic but there could also be a SAFE seal for apps showing the app was in intent practice and design consistent with SAFE principles- like a GPL for SAFE- would have contractual component.


The default usage of SAFE improves privacy compared to the existing default usage of the internet. But consumers may find they want to use some apps that do not respect privacy, eg those apps may include some tracking. We currently pay for the cost of google / facebook etc servers with our private data; will people prefer to pay for that cost with safecoin to keep their data private? Or will they still prefer to have zero price but give away personal information?

It’s not hard to imagine google paying for storage on SAFE on behalf of their users and then google owns the user data, not the user. Exactly like now except replacing company servers with SAFE.

The network doesn’t solve this social dynamic automatically, it takes education and desire from users. Fortunately SAFE (as a software and as a philosophy) is a pretty good tool for delivering that education!

As far as quantifying surveilence, this gives some idea of quantification: Troy Hunt PiHole

before privacy enabled = 2663 requests, 57.6 MB transferred
after privacy enabled = 175 requests, 2.1 MB transferred

It would be interesting to also quantify the other side of this equation, the marketer side, and see how privacy can be increased but at the same time also have marketing improved. I don’t know any sources for that sort of thing. There are technological solutions that I think can help marketers in a privacy-oriented environment but … in real life it will take more than just tech.


There is though an interesting idea there. If we all did use RDF/SOLID type data, even encrypted then we could have a few things to work with

  • Our own apps could match products to our desires via network queries against products and services others offer.
  • If you offer a product or service then make sure it is tagged properly with the correct and agreed on tags and it will be found (assume we have search capabilities)
  • People could make desires public and invite producers to find that desire, even on encrypted data using bulletproofs/homomorphic encryption etc.

None of these prevents the situation of selling your own data. I think some folk will or even be “conned” into doing so or just be too lazy to care, or in fact, simply do not care. Just putting that out there.


This is how I envisioned the way things would work. Rather like in the days before the internet & letterbox stuffing where advertisers would place adverts in newspapers (& billboards) and people would read them. With SAFE we would have a more automated way of finding the “products” we desire rather like in the old days, just automated. And no one knows what you looked for unless they were looking at the screen.

A bit like in the old days where one might enquire at the travel agent without giving them name/details


Or a bit like Tinder. What I really like in Tinder is that it is a technical solution to a social problem of shyness. Someone gets to know that you like them only if they like you too. It makes it so much easier to take an initiative when you know someone only hears it when there is at least some degree of reciprocity. This kind of logic could be taken much further and wider in Safenet. I could publish my hopes and dreams anonymously and find people, products, places etc. to match them.


What David is describing is essentially how DuckDuckGo operates (utilizing Google Ads, actually). I would be curious to see the metrics on their click rates versus something like Google, which casts a much wider net with the personal profiles they build to present ads.

I really doubt there is much difference between the two approaches. Noticeable, I’m sure, but not enough that one cannot successfully market their products efficiently.


Wholly confident, or I’ll follow @dirvine into failure. The reason is not “Maidsafe” as much as it’s the principled socio-engineering underpinning of the goals of Maidsafe. Maidsafe has the lead in developing a holistic (pardon the buzzword, appropriate as it may be) solution to the shortcomings of the internet proper. It’s also led by a serious engineer who comprehends how such a solution must be structured. From large conceptual design decisions, (‘encryption everywhere’) to nuanced implementation details, (Rust++) I as a highly skeptical and technical person have been convinced that there is actual, competent, leadership in this project. Over time, the results have confirmed, for me, my confidence in the project.