Giveaways, Bounties, Storj as an Example

You are frustrated over nothing, forum activity and development progress is correlated. The closer we get to launch the the more activity we will see on this forum, no need to force anything down peoples throat.

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I’ve always thought building a strong community was an important part of any project. I ran a 100k+ post forum before Storj and saw the true power of a large community.

We allocated 15% of the SJCX to community to manage, so the devs don’t have complete coin control. They elected a president, and they are managing that themselves. It is an interesting experiment, but its working out great so far.

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If you are “competing” then it is important to have the bigger community. If you are trying to fix a broken system, there is no need to have the bigger community, as Dirvine said if someone has a better solution then it benefits everyone.

Maidsafecoin was almost sold out within 5 hours

This to me, demonstrates the support beneath ProjectSAFE. What is visible on this forum is the tip.

I would suggest Storj reaching 9% of it’s crowdsale goal over 28 days, presents a different challenge to anything you may perceive as lacking within this community.

Thanks for your interest in the ProjectSAFE

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MAID was sold out like that b/c it was poorly structured. I voiced this at the time but no one cared to listen.

People on projects need to be a bit more open minded and less defensive. It however is a rare group that can put egos aside and take in varying opinions.

I’m simply pointing out ways in which this project can improve. I also happen to help bring about a technology which is used by many, many developers and I saw how it evolved from an idea our little group had to something really big almost 15 years later.

So when I bring this up it is only for your own good if you all also want to have this technology become the bread and butter of Internet apps 15 years from now.

And btw anyone trying to fix a broken system ultimately needs the entire community behind them.

[quote=“hamiltino, post:18, topic:1546”]
f you are “competing” then it is important to have the bigger community. If you are trying to fix a broken system, there is no need to have the bigger community, as Dirvine said if someone has a better solution then it benefits everyone.
[/quote]We aren’t competing. Its a big problem, and I don’t think there is a singular solution. Siacoin, Permacoin, and Filecoin are also interesting solutions. People are so used the notion of competing over technologies. All of the code is open source, and I think everyone is looking to learn and grow. I think financial interests start to put people at odds, when they really could be working together.

At least with my discussions I’ve found the people leading the projects are usually pretty neutral and open in their opinions, whereas users are a bit more combative(then again this is the internet). The open ended question is how can you get people to work together in this open environment, or is this impossible because of speculative coin interests?

If you don’t mind me picking on you chrisfostertv, I think this serves as a good example. I have no problem with the Maidsafe community, I was just offering some information how we handle community involvement, perhaps to spark some discussion on token distributions to the community. Instead it seems it like this was perceived as some sort of attack? Is that accurate?

I find it interesting that people are offering direct financial comparisons between Maidsafe and Storj. Maidsafe has been around since 2006, and raised ~$5M in investment. I think you would have to wait a couple of years to make a more direct comparison.

In this place, I would suggest creating your first ProjectSAFE related thread or comment.

“MAID was sold out like that b/c it was poorly structured. I voiced this at the time but no one cared to listen.”

I’m interested in knowing who you voiced your concerns to Dom. Very interested.

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Curious. Am I the only one who feels dirty hearing more advice from a mastercoin guy?

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I think you misunderstand the nature of a “community”. What you describe is something run by “executives” and that is not a community.

If you want that, what is your interest in MaidSafe (no need to answer - I’m just suggesting a dissonance here).

If you want this forum and community to “improve”, please spin off a topic to deal with that, and at least give us your view of what you want. Saying go to Storj and then do what they do is not helpful IMO.

If you can articulate what you feel would improve things, its up to you and everyone else here to decide what improvements are needed and to act on that. Its not for some “executives” or us mods, because this is a community.

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just so you know my background and where i come from while i was transitioning to the lead bizdev guy on that project from my communications role (I actually wanted to quit but I had made an earlier commitment to stay on for a year and I don’t like to break my word) as someone who was not an original mastercoin investor, and who does not have bagfuls of cash, my voice was irrelevant. I also felt that my image and reputation was tarnished after the way that crowdsale was handled, which in my opinion was done in a very selfish and ill thought out way. just my opinion.

i was brought into a call (thanks Judith) between maidsafe and mastercoin at the very last minute, perhaps a week prior to the sale or less, and i remember pointing out (I have an econ degree…) that the way the pricing was structured with the acceptance of an illiquid asset it did not seem set up right and would cause a flood of mastercoins. i mentioned my concern on the call with all of the main mastercoin people on there and one or two maidsafe folks.

as someone who had worked on large projects over the years i was also taken by surprise that mastercoin did not send anyone to actually sit with whoever operated the maidsafe issuance to immediately reserve some set of safecoins for the BTC buyers. again you have to remember that as someone with very little money i am not a “decision maker”.

but like i said in some parts of the crypto world unless one is trolling around with giant bags of money one’s voice is not heard even if it comes attached with logic from economics theory 101 books and which proves correct as time progresses and decisions play themselves out.

That is interesting, can you say who was on the call and was this documented later in the post mortem document. It seems to be very relevant to not be included. Also can you expand on selfish, that is also interesting news/revelation.

Certainly calls I had with MasterCoin people it was Nick or myself that were pushing back on pricing and until the very last day we were unaware of lack of mastercoin to make transactions easily. If there has been underhanded and selfish dealings then I would be pretty annoyed and get back quickly to the guys there and clarify anything.

I know Craig Sellers pretty well and I really do trust him a lot and I will happily ask him about this when we speak again as he is helping out at the MaidSafe Foundation as a volunteer advisor at board meetings.

We need to make sure any underhand things get publicised and weeded out as fast as possible. This sounds pretty serious if you ask me.

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Easily this is the case. When dealing with floating items such as these coins that exist today, you got an IPO type thing by selling software and denominated it in an asset that is floating on the exchange; the daily volume will reflect these things obviously.

Mastercoin daily volume few hundred - few thousand dollars per day.

When selling software if you get dollars, well there is 3 trillion dollars transacted each day; so the merchant (in this case maidsafe) can easily just go and trade those dollars elsewhere because of the obviously high liquidity. Mastercoin on the other hand is not liquid in any sense. Especially not for even a million bucks, not even for 10,000 bucks I promise. see next example;

I will attribute a character observation with mastercoin core owner, where they even tried to underhand a colleague in a transaction in order to off load their mastercoins despite the proof of a quick calculation proving that the transaction would result in the colleague’s loss of 10% of their assets immediately after the transaction. Edit, clarification: naturally this calculation resulted in an offer refusal

@dominikz brings up obvious facts about mastercoin’s illiquidity which does allude to selling your good stuff for mastercoin was identical to giving it up for … zimbabwe dollars; basically maidsafecoin bailed out the laming mastercoin owners at the time;

The rise in price is easily attributed to the conversion of bitcoins for maidsafecoins after the initial release.

Though there had to be some partisan thing, because … idk speak up like 4 months ago about this on the forum and write articles about it next time;

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As David say, we were only made aware of the intention/need to set the MSC price late, I think it was actually 5 days before the sale, this is documented in the retrospective. I would also be very interested in who you thought was being selfish here? It would be great to get this point clarified as we need to be able to trust the people we are working with.

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I’m not going to rehash everything here, but I think all of the decision makers who were involved bare some responsibility.

Frankly Mastercoin should have not agreed to do this crowd sale on Maidsafe’s time horizon, and Maidsafe should have demanded more support as well as ensured that it was structured correctly (like using an auction rather than fixed price). Also had I been running such an org I would have sent an engineer to sit with you (I mentioned this to people btw) to at the very least ensure that the number of Safecoins that were intended to be allocated to BTC were reserved the second after the crowd sale issuance command was entered. Also doing a mock crowd sale would have been a good move…

So I don’t think anything was underhanded…

I sat on that call and just thought to myself: are these people for real?

Hey, live and learn.

The biggest issue is that all the original mastercoin hodlers had very little faith in their own project. If the general consensus was to cash in on the first deal that fell on their plate, it seems fair to say the deal was entered into with malicious intent.

I find it really hard to believe that such a self-serving situation was the result of an accident…

“Millions of dollars in our pocket? Oooooops!”

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Hello,
Sorry for the offtopic, what did you guys use to create System Documents ? It looks great! The user experience is awesome. Is this platform proprietary or what? Can i use it for other purposes?

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Awww man!

Perfectly stated!!

(I couldn’t help but laugh at how true this is:)