Getting maidsafe on the freedombox server


#1

freedombox.org

On freedombox’s email list I asked if the freedombox is well suited for
hosting maidsafe? Only the vault software is relevant
to get on the freedombox?
Several people responded they wanted maidsafe to get on the freedombox.
I do not know how many freedomboxes are on the internet. Probably not
many. How can it get coordinated such that when maidsafe version
alpha 4 is available the maidsafe vault software is ready for the freedombox?

It was suggested to make maidsafe debian packages.
Too early to start getting a maidsafe vaulut debain package?
Can you tell how to boot strap maidsafe?
Maidsafe is rust, how does it get into a debian package?

Thank you.


SUGGESTION: Funding Our Own Hard Network (Mesh?)
Webterm: a command line shell in the browser to manage your p2p storage
SUGGESTION: Funding Our Own Hard Network (Mesh?)
Which OS for farming?
Safenet as a debian package?
Maidsafe on a freedombox.org?
Hardware in-line proxy
#2

We have deb packages, but don’t run those scripts right now. When we get alpha4 we should do so again.


#3

The FreedomBox discussion is here:
https://alioth-lists.debian.net/pipermail/freedombox-discuss/2018-June/008425.html

As also clarified in that discussion, the interest is in packaging and maintaining Maidsafe official as integral part of Debian - independent from any packages usable for installation on top of Debian that Maidsafe developers may choose to offer.


#4

Hi @jonas and welcome!

MaidSafe is the name of the company behind the project. The name of the project is SAFE Network :slight_smile:


#5

Thanks for the clarification, @dimitar

Apparently I got an automated message that my post above has been flagged “by the community” as being spam. Can “the community” somehow help un-flag it?


#6

Hello

That was the Discourse system again, because you posted, as new user, a lot of posts with the same url’s. So it thinks it’s spam.
I’ve done the necessary as a moderator to undo these actions.


#7

Hi @jonas, I was finding your posts interesting already, but Melvin on the Solid chat just told me you are also interested in Solid server on freedombox which is super cool :slight_smile: We’d love to see both!

I have to keep calm - already bumped my head doing the Solid on SAFE dance once this week :persevere:


#8

To clarify, creating Debian packages like this is different to making them part of Debian, and then part of the freedombox Debian (Pure Blend).

Had a long chat with @jonas yesterday, and if I understand that part of a very long and interesting conversation, getting SAFE Vault into Debian is a long but worthwhile process for several reasons. Maybe you can correct me here @jonas but I understand these to be:

  • the packages are stripped to what is needed, and of any non-free components which not only makes them slimmer but improves security and sustainability (more eyes on a smaller, open codebase).
  • once part of Debian, updates pass through an ongoing scrutiny process (of every component which SAFE relies upon), again adding to security, bug detection and reporting
  • once part of Debian, packages not only find their way into Debian systems, but propagate into many Linux distros, greatly increasing exposure, ease of installation and adoption

One problem is that getting through the rigorous packaging process takes 1 to 3 years, so it may be wise to begin now, even before the builds are in alpha, because preparatory work can work in those areas that are already stable.


#9

All of it correct. Sort of…

Debian is famous for being slow. Literally takes ages to mature - or weeks, depending on how you look at it and how you use Debian.

Introducing Rust libraries has taken time, but should hopefully be done very soon (infrastructure should be settled and first batch of core libraries was uploaded less than a week ago, now awaiting a final proof-reading of the packaging and licensing). Nodejs took time but have been in Debian a few uears now - another pain point there is Electron specifically being a complex beast to package - and adding to the challenge I am told that upstream developers are sceptical to the relevancy of Debian packaging stalling that process too.

Apart from introducing new complex stuff to Debian, typical time to initially introducing a new library to Debian is 1-2 weeks (initial checking licenses is more work for fewer trusted people - called “ftpmasters” for historical reasons), and subsequent package updates take 1-6 hours to auto-enter Debian (when neither upstream code nor packaging introduces bugs). Packages are first placed in “unstable”, and after 5-10 days the package trickles down to “testing”, and every 2-3 years we take the pool of “testing” and “freeze” it for ~6 months and then declare it “stable”.

So stable releases of Debian consist of packages that are between 6 months and 3 years old. For those appreciating very stable stuff. More adventurous users may instead choose to use Ubuntu, a distribution grabbing packages from Debian “testing” and after 6 months declaring it “stable”.
Or install Debian “testing” directly - and get 5-10 days old packages updated every 6 hours. Or (like me) install Debian “unstable” and get freshly released packages every 6 hours (what I call “eternal christmas” - got it? Opening packages all the time :slight_smile: ).


#10

As an enthusiastic fan of the FreedomBox & SAFE Network efforts, I’m interested in seeing the ability to run a vault on FreedomBox. I’m sure I don’t understand all that would be necessary for this. Is there any discussion of this effort elsewhere that I could follow? I don’t know how I could contribute, but I would very much like to.


#11

There are at least a couple of topics about this, and @jonas who is one of the maintainers of Freedombox is keen to help it happen. Search the forum for ‘Freedombox’ and you should find them and if you want to help, maybe post there too.


#12

I believe such search will point at this very thread :wink:

As I also recently wrote to @asdf at SUGGESTION: Funding Our Own Hard Network (Mesh?), I suggest that we here in this thread discuss running Maidsafe on FreedomBox, and in Maidsafe on a freedombox.org? discuss getting Maidsafe integrated as official part of Debian (and, therefore more or less implicitly, FreedomBox).

If someone can rename the topics of these threads to aid in that, that would be nice.


#13

Can you write in english via a web browser (yes, that’s a rhetoric question!), then you can suggest to the FreedomBox project to get SAFE included, by editing this wiki page: https://wiki.debian.org/FreedomBox/LeavingTheCloud

Can you write in english via email, and follow a guide on which format you should write? Then you can raise awareness in Debian of your interest in SAFE getting packaged for Debian, by filing a so-called “RFP” bug - see the link near the top of above wiki page on how to do that.

Can you compile code and write deb-format software packages, then instead of filing an “RFP” bug, file an “ITP” bug and start packaging.


#14

…but if you have follow-up questions or comments related to Debian packaging, then please post those not here but at Maidsafe on a freedombox.org?


#15

oh well, I change my mind: Let’s just discuss here and let the other thread die out


#16

Thank you for your input. I am attempting to get familiar with the DebianWiki now.

I don’t have technical computer skills. You mentioned those that can compile code and write deb-format software packages… I would like to learn to do this. A few years ago I attempted to learn to code in Rust but found that there wasn’t much for someone looking to begin without previous coding experience. I’m a little less busy these days, and I’d like to revisit. I am wondering if maybe I should approach learning to code in some other language with more resources for beginners, and then attempt to learn Rust.

Do you have any insight you would be willing to share? If learning a different language first, do you have a suggestion of which one it should be given my interest in Rust & SAFE Network?

I realize that there are plenty of people who have the necessary skills who are working hard to achieve SAFE Network, and FreedomBox, but I find both necessary and inspiring. I would like to have some ability to contribute work.


#17

Quoting asdf via SAFE Network Forum (2019-02-25 18:26:50)

I don’t have technical computer skills. You mentioned those that can
compile code and write deb-format software packages… I would like to
learn to do this. A few years ago I attempted to learn to code in
Rust but found that there wasn’t much for someone looking to begin
without previous coding experience. I’m a little less busy these
days, and I’d like to revisit. I am wondering if maybe I should
approach learning to code in some other language with more resources
for beginners, and then attempt to learn Rust.

Do you have any insight you would be willing to share? If learning a
different language first, do you have a suggestion of which one it
should be given my interest in Rust & SAFE Network?

There a many ways you can help, requiring varying skills.

You can help create code in close collaboration with the SAFE
community, and/or you can help package code in close collaboration
with the Debian community.

Since I am most involved with Debian, and also Debian is an older
project with more well-established documentation and a richer more
varied developer community, I suggest that you take a look at Debian
information first, even if you will end up working closely with SAFE.

A good entry point for Debian is https://www.debian.org/devel/join/

As you can see from above page, the main thing we do in Debian is
“packaging” - which is related to coding and it helps to have some
coding skills, but you can get far with only high-level scripting
knowledge (bash, perl, make), and you can help with tasks requiring zero
coding skills as well (translation, documentation, testing, etc.).

NB! The term “packaging” is commonly misunderstood: The task always
begins with making a package around a code project, but really the
task is about maintaining packages. One way to start is to try
package something new from scratch, but a better approach is likely to
join a team and tag along, helping out looking after existing packages
to get the hang of what to pay attention to and which tools exist and
are preferred over other ones, and only then try package something new
from scratch.

SAFE code is mostly written in Rust for system-facing backend services
and libraries, and in Node.js for user-facing frontend applications and
their libraries.

Information about corresponding Debian packaging teams are at
https://wiki.debian.org/Teams/RustPackaging and
https://wiki.debian.org/Javascript

Where to begin? What excites you the most to imagine will likely be the
things you will be most happy to invest enough time in to reach a point
where it pays back and you gain enough understanding and familiarity
that you can make a difference - and then you are (holefully) hooked :slight_smile:

I realize that there are plenty of people who have the necessary
skills

Never enough: There is always room for more contributions!

  • Jonas

#18

I second what @Jonas suggests - it would be awesome to have someone working on Debian packaging with the aim of getting SAFE stuff packaged for Debian. That would be amazing!