Fungibility Talk

My whole point was that black/gray markets exist, but blacklisted items sold there are not interchangeable with non blacklisted items. No one would trade a non blacklisted BTC for a blacklisted BTC, they do not hold the same value. Therefore, they are not interchangeable and therefore not, by definition, fungible. You agreed with me that black markets exist, thus reinforcing my point and, likely mistakenly, agreed with me.

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The only one defeated here is you.

I have not suffered a defeat by the rules of the debate and I challenge you to show where my arguments have been defeated. It appears that you are not mature enough to accept losing and are attempting to force a loss on someone who has defeated you. This won’t work.

You try to force your own version of reality on the rest of us and spend hours typing long replies arguing semantics.

You’re lying and projecting. You can’t cite a single post of mine where I’ve done that, but I have already cited several times where you, happybeing and the other guy have done so. Which is dishonest and disqualifies you from the debate, granting me the victory. I think that’s the fastest debate I’ve ever won, so thank you for that!

And as for “friend”, I have argued fiercely with many who are responding to you now. Our previous disagreements does not mean they are automatically wrong here.

That’s completely irrelevant. Friends argue all the time, that doesn’t mean when a perceived outsider comes through that you won’t still close ranks. This is another flawed and incorrect argument that you have made. You’re good at that!

Away and take a chill pill and maybe indulge in a spot of self-reflection.

You are the one who needs to take a chill pill, I wasn’t even talking to you but you felt the need to blurt out your rhetoric and abusive bile (calling me a troll) when nobody asked you anything. So take your own advice, sit down and be quiet.

Smells like trolling to me. So away and polish your ego, pal.

We’re not pals, see my last line.

My whole point was that black/gray markets exist, but blacklisted items sold there are not interchangeable with non blacklisted items

That’s not true though and that was NOT your point. You are assuming that legitimate markets have an exclusive hold on exchanging, which is not true. If you buy something from a black market and someone buys something from a legitimate market BOTH OF YOU can still make a trade.

There is NO difference. Your and the XMR community’s inaccurate assumption is that somehow exchanges have the ability to unilaterally declare certain BTC to be not valuable AND THIS IS FALSE. Blacklisting an asset doesn’t change anything about the asset.

It doesn’t limit the address space, it doesn’t increase the transaction fee to the point where you can’t send, it doesn’t have ANY INTRINSIC EFFECT on the cryptocurrency in question. So your argument is specious and completely illogical.

No one would trade a non blacklisted BTC for a blacklisted BTC, they do not hold the same value.

This is NOT TRUE! You’re just making that up. There is no such thing as a "blacklisted BTC’ and you can’t provide any example of this. Their value is the same. And anyway, blacklisting doesn’t change the fact that a BTC is a BTC which means your example is false.

You agreed with me that black markets exist

Of course black markets exist I never claimed they did not what a pathetic attempt to weasel a victory. This is the fifth dishonest argument you have made here and the second time you’re conceding the victory to me (by default).

thus reinforcing my point and, likely mistakenly, agreed with me.

That is not a logical conclusion. Drawing illogical conclusions is disqualifying behavior in debates. Just because I agree that black markets exist doesn’t mean that cryptocurrencies are not fungible.

Cool beans. Have a good one.

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I accept this as your admission of defeat.

Enjoy the rest of your day!

I bet you are fun at parties.

Tell me do you have many friends IRL?

And I repeat my initial assertion, your behaviour in here over the past few days amounts to trolling. It would seem ou have little else better to do with your time.

I am off now to work on testing the latest code from the devs. If you had any genuine regard for the well-being of the project rather than just finding another forum to project your ego, you would do the same. See threads https://safenetforum.org/t/april-1-2022-dbc-tests-on-a-spentbook/36835?u=southside and Pre-Dev-Update Thread! Yay! :D - #4780 by joshuef to prove you are not just here on an ego trip.

Turning the discussion away from the main point is a dishonest behavior. Attacking the messenger is dishonest debating. You are committing several acts of trolling which disqualify you from the debate and grant me an automatic victory.

Its clear you are doing this deliberately because you wish to hide the fact that your friends have been defeated by cold, hard rationale and logic… I understand, when I was a child I had similar desires whenever I lost debates. But you know what?

I always looked back and realized it would’ve been better to just admit I was wrong. That’s why you can’t defeat me and lost here today, because you’re too immature to really put yourself on the line.

So you think you can hide behind false accusations and trolling (entering a debate with no desire to actually deal with the arguments of that debate) as a front to protect your friends. The real world doesn’t work that way. Your echo chamber might work that way, but not anymore as I’ve destroyed it with the facts. This is why you’re so upset with me and why none of the moderators act on my behalf against your rule violations.

You want me to “go away” so you can go back to your club and pal around with your friends some more. But those “friends” are toxic and are LYING to you. Fungibility has NOTHING TO DO with blacklisting and YOU KNOW IT. But because you want to be popular instead of RIGHT, you ignore the truth so you can be more easily accepted. This is not how grown men behave and you shame yourself by engaging in that behavior. Do better, grow up and stop being immature.

Cryptocurrencies are BY DEFINITION fungible. None of the clown dance that you’ve just performed change that.

If you had any genuine regard for the well-being of the project rather than just finding another forum to project your ego, you would do the same. See threads https://safenetforum.org/t/april-1-2022-dbc-tests-on-a-spentbook/36835?u=southside and Pre-Dev-Update Thread! Yay! :smiley: - #4780 by joshuef to prove you are not just here on an ego trip.

The loser in debates has no right to condescend to the winner. Go do that and stop polluting this thread with your whining and immaturity. Thanks.

Did ye get a wee chubby typing that? Bet ye did, aye?

One thing about being mature is that you don’t relish telling other people off. If you were mature, you’d already know that.

Are you done here?

I don’t mean any insult or to imply anything negative, but I’m legitimately curious, are you autistic?

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Nope. I have more friends than the majority of people here. Combined.

Not sure what having friends has to do with being autistic, but ok.

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Prove it. Pal.

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Why would I do that? I don’t benefit from that at all. You’re the ones who turned this into a popularity contest in contravention to the rules. Also notice that deflecting from the topic of fungibility towards “how many friends do you have” or “I bet you’re autistic” is actually trolling. So now you’re a hypocrite too…

I’m apparently the only one here who’s read the community guidelines. Notice how offtopic your arguments are and the moderators do nothing about it. That’s case in point proving that I was right all along.

Not sure what autism has to do with fungibility but okay. And autism is generally considered to be a social disorder which results in difficulty connecting with others and expressing one’s self in a socially appropriate manner.

Which obviously implies difficulty making friends. I have difficulty making friends here because you all fell for a soothsayer from the XMR community and lash out like jilted lovers when I contradict their “declarations from on high”. That’s a YOU problem, not me.

My question had to do with your argument style and complete lack of being able to comprehend nuance. You remind me a lot of a family member I have with autism.

A lot of autistic people have friends. There is a spectrum of how it presents, some are way more social than others.

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My question had to do with your argument style and complete lack of being able to comprehend nuance.

This is your bias speaking. My posts are incredibly nuanced. I know because I’ve seen through the attempts at misdirection that you’ve engaged in in an attempt to win disingenuously.

A lot of autistic people have friends. There is a spectrum of how it presents, some are way more social than others.

Uh huh. Still waiting for the relevant, non-off topic part of this discussion. Only a sore-loser defaults to an “you must have a mental disability because you don’t agree with me” argument. Sheesh, how low will you go before you realize its less painful to just admit you were wrong?

If we promise to massage your needy ego by agreeing with you will you promise to go away and never visit this forum again?

Cos it would be worth telling a wee white lie just to be rid of you and your ego.

You desperately need someone to tell you how wonderful and prescient you are. You desperately need someone to tell you your logic is impeccable. You desperately need help. You can’t see this but its very obvious to the rest of us. I guess its just our bad luck that you chanced on this forum. Shit happens and today shit was called Kagetoki. Are you Japanese or did you think a Japanese-sounding moniker made you appear Satoshi-like in your self-assumed omniscence and arrogance?

Now go away yourself, others are trying to get on with doing real work in testing, not dancing on the head of a pin about the semantics of fungibility. Without working wallets, all the fungibility in the worldd is worthless.

I repeat if this project is of more importance to you than your ego, then your assistance would be welcomed and you may find a very different reaction to your posts.

But I doubt you are capable of that.

If we promise to massage your needy ego by agreeing with you will you promise to go away and never visit this forum again?

Of course not, I don’t care about you or anything you say. You somehow seemed to have missed this, perhaps because you’re used to the corruption your “happy funtime friend’s circle” implies, but a debate isn’t about the other person or other people, its about you. You lack self control and modesty.

You think I care about you when you’re the one who jumped into this debate while I never knew or cared that you existed. Even now I don’t know what you hope to accomplish with this lackluster effort.

Your behavior solely amounts to hubris and your posts are trolling and off-topic. You have contributed NOTHING to this discussion, but speak as if you’re the victor. So you’re clearly the one with ego padding issues. Projection is another symptom of that as well.

Cos it would be worth telling a wee white lie just to be rid of you and your ego.

You wouldn’t be lying, I won here today, as evidenced by the simple fact that you’re taking the discussion in this direction to do the same amount of emotional damage to me, as watching your friends be defeated did to you. That’s a tacit admission that you know I won, because only losers feel that way. I would smile at that, but I already knew I won dozens of posts ago so this is just for your edification only.

You desperately need someone to tell you how wonderful and prescient you are. You desperately need someone to tell you your logic is impeccable. You desperately need help.

Do you think projection is a viable mode of argumentation? Because its not. You’re the one who jumped into a discussion that you had no part in just to spew your bile and vitriol, as if your feet-stomping and pram-kicking temper tantrum was supposed to affect me. That shows that it is YOU who has a need for attention. You may not have gotten enough as a child, for which I’m sorry, but that doesn’t mean that your posts here are relevant and not trolling.

You can’t see this but its very obvious to the rest of us.

Speaking for other people is the sign of an egotistical person.

Now go away yourself

No, I don’t think I will. Like I said, the loser in debates has no right to condescend to the winner. That is exclusively the winners prerogative. How about this, you pretend that by you shutting up you’re “stroking my ego” and I’ll pretend like I care. Sound good?

Without working wallets, all the fungibility in the worldd is worthless.

Right and exchanges have the power to make ‘all wallets non-functional’, right? You’re so busy frothing with pop-psychology and projection that you can’t even see how nonsensical your arguments are. This is why you could never defeat me in 100 years. You’re like a baby to me.

I repeat if this project is of more importance to you than your ego, then your assistance would be welcomed and you may find a very different reaction to your posts.

I repeat, the loser in a debate has no right to claim “the last word” or any such thing that you’re attempting. Do YOURSELF a big favor and just shut up already, 'kay?

Two things are very obvious - you have a LOT of experience with trolling. And you are a sociopath.