Funding for MaidSafe company - update

The beauty of a free market is that you can buy and sell whenever you want to. No one is forcing you to stay. It’s called risk vs reward.

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There is certainly criticism: see interesting article below. Reminds me of openoffice → libreoffice or Java.

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IMO, this is exactly how it has to be - either driven by a focussed individual or a focussed team. Once the application is mature enough, it can be passed to a community to maintain, should the personal/business focus change.

For example, Linus Torvalds created the first version of linux himself, setting the template for future iterations. As the project came too big for one man, he maintained his focus on the core kernal development, while others contributed elsewhere.

I see @divine and @maidsafe in a similar light. The tight focus of this team can define the spine, the core architecture, of the safe network. In time, this will mature and more contributors will be able to improve on this, especially on the outer layers (e.g. browsers, new platforms, wallets, etc). I suspect maidsafe will continue to improve the core, adding new functionality (e.g. compute) and other general improvements. I suspect they will also take a leadership role for the direction of the project as a whole.

So, I am not at all worried about community contributions at this point. They will come in time, when the circumstances suit.

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I agree in principle, but I suppose that Linus did not have a forum thread called “Funding for Linux Company -update” and I suppose that Microsoft could not have purchased a patent portfolio by buying up “the Linux Company.” (I don’t know the history of Linux, and still learning about MaidSafe.) Were the circumstances more similar than I supposed they were?
If it’s not community contribution, what else could help (in addition to contributing in the form of making suggestions on this forum) to make worries go away? Is it just money, more funding?
I am personally just trying to form a complete picture of all the options for helping the project succeed, including ideas we perhaps have not thought of before.

I see a single example. The video presents a vision, nothing else. And we all know that 2014 blew. It’s one example of a PR fiasco.

If anything, MaidSafe has been giving the impression they keep marching towards the goal, no matter how long it takes, and they meticulously avoid giving any accurate timelines precisely because of what happened in 2014.

I mean, you say they have repeatedly done what they in fact mostly resist doing, and in the very next paragraph you throw it against them because you’re worried they are not doing it. I’m all for absurdity :yum:

As for this:

24-Apr-18

24 months from that day means we still have approximately one year to go. Do you plan on worrying for another twelve months? You’re almost one year early :grin:

I’ve read your post two times because you have obviously put a lot of effort into writing it, but in the end, despite the mostly calm, gentle and soothing tone, you end up sounding like a mellow version of those people who at one point unleash and then – for whatever reason – disappear. I hope you will stay.

I have already suggested setting up a sticky thread where all the worried, impatient, disappointed and disenchanted folks can go and just relieve themselves by telling the goddamn MaidSafe how bloody awful the wait is. We all suffer from sudden spasms of doubt, right. But I feel that losing optimism and more or less subtly saying ‘I’m pissed off!’ and ‘hey ya all, do as I please (because of investors)’ makes one look like a bit of a fool in the end because it changes nothing. At best it’s funny, at worst… it causes doubt, fear and paranoia.

Maybe we should be all of these, but I think it’s generally helpful to express and share only the latter two. Especially in case there is no rational base for worries or accusations. I mean, what’s the point of alerting everyone we might be in for a huge disappointment? We all know this.

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I am not sure if a) honesty and perhaps a re-priced MAID based on the true state of the technology would not better and more fair than b) show of strong leadership and conviction by hiding concerns to buy more time to achieve a greater goal that helps everyone. I could understand both arguments. But I tend to prefer a). It would perhaps enable me to buy more MAID at a lower price, help fixing any issues, and be rewarded for the work.

The current price of Bitcoin at nearly US $9300 must be extending the project runway a bit. Good news perhaps?

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Always, surprised the recent dev progress does not reflect in maidsafecoin price, but lets see the next few weeks there as well. All good though

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I wouldn’t let the current price worry anyone. I think it’s a lot to do with the 12 years and still nothing to show story. Imagine the reaction when Fleming is announced. The headline should change from the Possible network to The Very Very Highly Probable New Internet

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I think we will see it once workable Flemming can be tested by the masses and promoted as well by many of us. Code commits and hype only will get us so far, also this forum is a vacuum essentially for those who are already all in and cheerleading(except for a few dissenters like some who have posted in this thread). Once Maid delivers something incredible and decentralized and then we can get back on the front page of something like /r/cryptocurrency or /r/bitcoin(unlikely to achieve this because they are pretty deep into btc only now) or stir up some of the old crypto whales belief in the project in bitcointalk forums then I think we will see those 20-30% coin rise ups quickly. I would like to see us back at $.70-$1.00 ranges at the moment but until we stir up real buzz among those who appreciate crazy cool tech I think yall just have to keep grinding and once its ready hold it high above your head for all to see and proclaim it loudly :slight_smile: .

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To be perfectly honest, I’m not surprised at all. The crypto space, where SAFE is inevitably placed, is full of progress, good news and “soon”.

People who can actually read the code on GitHub and see concrete progress are few and far between. Most people who hear about this new Internet can only ask “Where is it at, and how do I search it?”. The answer is, "Well, it’s not really there yet, or there is like this centralized version that you can try out, but you need to spend time on a forum and get an invite first. And you can’t search it yet. Most stop here.

Then there are people like me who can’t read much code but do see great potential and like testing stuff a bit. But when I try to create my first HTML-page I get stuck when being asked for a “subdomain” that I don’t understand, as well as confused by terms like publicID/Public name. This is a small example. I guess my point is that testing little “Joe Sixpack things” should be simplified and the way to do it well-documented on one official site.

@JPL and others have done great work writing the Primer
https://primer.safenetwork.org/ which for some reason isn’t found on https://safenetwork.tech/. There is also Your first SAFE website – start to finish in just 20 minutes, but it seems a bit outdated. If it still is relevant, I think the guide should also be on the official site, not buried in some forum.

One thing I would like very much is the ability to wipe anything I’ve done and start afresh, or at least change the names of domain/subdomain/publicID/public name et al. I realize stuff i supposed to be kept forever on the final network, but for testing it’s good to be able to start from scratch in order to e.g. meaningfully reproduce a bug.

Apparently I can’t quote a closed topic, but this is what @bochaco wrote earlier:
“the Web Hosting Manager won’t show you the public name sascha for you to publish a website on it because we still didn’t make the WHM app compatible with the data format (RDF) used by the WebID Manager app”

What is the state of the Web Hosting Manager now, and what is its relation to the WebID Profile Manager?

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Yes, this is a huge difference. Other projects have at least something out in the wild, and the steps forward are about adding something to that concrete product, that everybody can verify working on their own machine. So far we have been mostly adding news to the previous news. I’m sure this will change as soon as we have any kind of network that people can participate.

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Yes, I agree. I think we mainly have the same opinion. I think projects that raise interest
are already live or in a kind of public “Alpha”/“Beta” where they can demonstrate, AT LEAST, core features.

It’s open, it’s running, you can download a node/client or whatever and test it from home. They all probably have issues, bugs and even security problems (example: https://medium.com/@neha/cryptographic-vulnerabilities-in-iota-9a6a9ddc4367)!

But all this is part of the learning curve. They can iterate on this to improve, fix, optimize, etc. There are many things which can be discovered ONLY when hundreds / thousands of people will interact with the network. They will play with it, build DApps on it, try to compromise it, etc.

I don’t say that the team have to rush to deliver, but I am convinced that even an incomplete open network will be very positive in many points. This might speed up the development, increase the traction of the project, boost the optimism and the motivation of the community, etc.

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The current online Alpha 2 network has not been in vain. Know how many projects launch and say ‘now come build?’. When SAFE launches, it will have a good suite of somewhat polished demo apps ready as well as training materials and a long term die hard community. The decentralized version should be the match to gasoline.

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Maybe some big players that don’t want the price to rise? I don’t have any other explanation.

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Of course the longer this game is played, the more painful the turnaround, when position have to get balanced.

You eventualy can’t hold the damn while momentum is growing :grin:

image

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making something safe is against what you say (aka release an unsafe network)

imagine only people trying it and hackin it and saying “safe network is not safe, dont use it”

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You can know if the network is really safe only by passing by a public “alpha” or “beta”, even if the network is reset after this phases, we have to do it. It’s impossible to anticipate/guess/predict many issues, we will ONLY know by going “public”.

There is NO OTHER WAY to discover such things. It’s the same difference between drive a car in a simulator and drive in real conditions. You can train as long as you can, train to anticipate/manage each risk, and be the best car simulator driver AND you can crash you car after 1 hour driving in real.

I want to be clear in the fact that even if we wait 10 more years of development, we will still have lot’s of problem we will discover ONLY after a phase of “real condition testing”.

It’s ok to have bugs, crash and even security issues in testing phases. We should not be AFRAID because everything discovered in this phases will be beneficial. IT’S IMPOSSIBLE TO ANTICIPATE EVERYTHING.

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Could not agree more.

It’s like the chicken and egg who came first question. The MVP position to beta is, IMO, the best route. We need a highly considered unhackable position before beta. It’s critical to Safenet’s reputation.
As for price, to date Maidsafe has been concentrating on Developers. I don’t think it’s the Developers that buy coins. In the crypto world it’s the Influencers that connect with the public. At some point in time that will have to be in the “to do” list.

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