Fresh safecoins from farmers

yes, you’d transfer them to a non fresh-CoinBalance

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Great food for thought post @bochaco, thanks for sharing crazy ideas. I am not a fan of FreshSafeCoin or rebranded token for the fungibility and complexity issues it introduces as many have mentioned. However there may be value in a private simple accounting entry/signed proof: “This account ID has farmed X Safecoin” (or even a whole list of entries over time). The user may want to expose some or all of this information about their account as proof of work for any core or third party App services that require raising the bar for entry.

P.S. The public name system RFC discussion deserves it’s own thread for community comment - perhaps with a summary of what the dev forum crew have decide so far on behalf of the community (yeah, I don’t like the idea of a separate from the communty dev forum).

I’m not opposed to the idea of fresh-coins. I am opposed to limiting them to specific functions.

I like the idea of rewarding and giving incentive for people to farm and help it grow. However, what you are proposing sounds like punishing and excluding non farmers. IMO the only way to do this would be to give, say, a 10% discount on network services to fresh-coins. They would also need to be non-transferable.

I think the current design here promotes easier phishing attacks too for what average clearnet web users are accustomed too.

If user A buys: safe://payment.com
And malicious user B buys: safe://secure.payment.com

Average people will think of the two safe websites as the same owner/trust in my opinion. I think the network should reject the purchase of names that in clear net would be considered a subdomain of an existing name to prevent exactly just that. I think keeping the learning curve down where it can be low is better, and to mirror common practices clear net has without sacrificing the principles of SAFE. Arguably to do so though also goes against my keep it simple mantra to get us to MVP because right now its simple as ever where its just a 1 to 1 map, buy this exact name and thats what you get.

That is not possible. Names are flat and there is no buying “sub-domains” which cannot be done on clearweb either.

Without a registrar there is no way really to prevent human similar names from appearing. Every time you make an algorithm or method to stop it they find another way to get around it. And the less simple a scheme becomes typically there are more ways to abuse it.

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I like this idea of having a browser plugin manage domains … so maidsafe might only need to reserve .web, .web2 … etc tld’s … then a particular plugin with a particular system of domain management would be able to handle the rest e.g.: safe://google.com.web … where each plugin would handle only a single tld.

In this manner we can have any number of domain systems catering to whatever people like.

One plugin might have a 30 year contract with option to renew … another might be pay as you go, another might be in perpetuity … another might auction it off to highest bidder at the end of a period of time … whatever you want, you can have it as a system … just build yourself a plugin and buy a tld from maidsafe.

Lot to think about here…but to clarify (at least in my head) sounds like the all purpose of this dual coin idea is preventing:
1- PN squatting/spamming
2- uncontrolled SAFE Accounts creation
@bochaco please correct me if I’m wrong

For point two, frankly that doesn’t worry me, unless it affects network performance or ability to expand. Not dissimilar problem to having your name taken in gmail. Not a biggie

For point one, on the other end, the implications are much more worriesome. In particular using clearnet big corporations domains for fraudulent or propagandistic reasons, which as mentioned could kill the safenetwork reputation. But also the overall effect of spamming and squatting

So my .02 :

I don’t believe there’s a silver bullet, but a combination of things

a- As @Dimitar mentioned, witholding certains PNs, with criterias to be defined, by Maidsafe foundation as @neo suggested. Release method to be discussed as well (paid or not?)

b- using a community rating system for PNs. And here is when I think it becomes very interesting. I’m imagining an icon next to the safe: address reflecting the community reputation for that PN (yes, foundamentally the green lock on clearnet…but community based). The trick here will be making the reputation based on the right parameters…and maybe @Seneca 's effort could help on this…

Back to (strict) topic, don’t really like the idea of the dual coin. More because I question whether it is the right answer to the problem.
An app-level solution as hinted above, plus some level of control (as minimal as possible) from maidsafe foundation, are less abstract/more practical ways to deal with the problem IMHO.
As for the proposed new data types, if they can help with the above, sure…

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That is an interesting idea. The Name is an AD so there is the option to have the rating stored with the name record.

Maybe vote on

  • valid
  • illegal
  • scammer
  • etc

But this too can be abused by down voting a good site to attack a competitor

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If this could be managed by a plugin and hence not in the core Safe Network. Then there are multiple ways of doing things and choice is preserved. Also easier to adapt to the manipulators.

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If at network level, I suppose it comes down to who has the right to write/append that information. Elders through parsec?

If at app level, you would hope non genuine ratings would avarage out, unless the whole rating-system-based economy is flawed…eheh can of worms

Like it.

Freedom to create any domains, on any plugin, with that plugging referenced by the last .web.:grinning:

With an option to go to a trusted organisation like MAID to register a domain on a rubber-stamped plugin.

One of many good business opertunities for maid foundation.

I see ICANN also muscling in on this, since they already are some sort of domain provider.

This would legitimise the SAFEnetwork from a “think of the children” argument.

Of course … The “Dark SAFENet” will exist by domains not on a rubber-stamped plugin, in the same way the current “DARK internet” exists already.

We can then shuffle all criticisms of the SAFEnetwork towards the existing problem of the darknet and there is nothing we can do about it.

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Really I see that as irrelevant since people’s votes have to be recorded somehow, and once that happens its possible to bias that

That’s a great point, hadn’t even thought of that. But yeah could be a good way to manage/separate out darkweb stuff from mainstream and many would prefer that for sure.

.web .grayweb .darkweb !! install whatever browser plugin you prefer … or install them all.

Though I wouldn’t explicitly state .darkweb
In the same way today there is no explicit statement of a darkweb. It’s just possible to do.

On SAFENet darkweb will be possible by not taking part in rubber-stamped plugins.

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Although if you don’t have it, then I suspect it would be more likely for darkweb materials to end up being snuck into the non-darkweb zones.

If there is an darkweb tld it’s quite likely that a darkweb content creator will use it. If you don’t then they will go where-ever they suspect they can have the most traffic.

I suppose where I was going there was more some level of veto right for the Elders, or otherwise network level support wouldn’t make sense anyway since you’d foundamentally revert to the app-level solution.
At the same time this would crate a potential promiscuity between network and app level, and I’m not sure about the implications of that :thinking:

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Would not be possible. Non-darkweb zones would be administered by ICANN or similar organisations, that could track down individuals.

We do need the ICANN or MAID rubber-stamped registration for the corporate world…

We do need to

1). Provide for corporate entities, to have stable domains on a rubber-stamped plugin for their marketing departments.
2) but also provide the ability for the rest of us to create resolver plugins, and register domains of any type on any other plugins… anonymously.

Might have to reach out to ICANN, might need to put 2 default “clear-SAFENet” resolver plugins in the browser for the general population.
The rest of us “hackers” can pick and choose from what ever resolver we want.

The MAIDSAFE foundation has an opertunity to make some money here - sell a licence for e period of time to a domain registration company as a default plugin on the official browser? Then some licences for plugins to be available as a choice on a list.

Thing is… I see a future where Google release their own safe browser with their own domain lookup as default.

None of this will happen… We already have 100% foresight on this… from the past 8 years of bitcoin.

If ANY of today’s dinosaur privacy-hating companies see any benefit to the SAFE network… well what did any of those companies do with “blockchain” technology…?

There will be 2,000~ forks of the SAFE network with anonymity ripped out and other things added to have centralized control… AS MUCH AS IT MAKES ZERO SENSE I KNOW… but like I said, we already have 100% foresight on how the first few YEARS of SAFE network live will play out… 100%

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We need to make it really easy for people to make their own “coins” on SAFENet.

We have already had a demonstration of a wallet with coins.

On launch we need to have SAfECoin ready, but we should probably have many other community coins, hopefully backing services on SAFENet so that people will find it easier to build their great money making coin ideas on the SAFEnetwork … instead of just cloning SAFEnetwork.

Decorum coin is one of them.

I’m hoping JAMS is one of many ‘comercial’ closed source killer app services that can’t be cloned. Let people clone the SAFENet – but if we have the JAMS, the githubs ---- all these ready and running. Why would anyone ever farm on a second rate scammy clone of SAFENet?

People are used to buying a gateway coin like bitcoin to access altcoins, I think with a fertile and entrepenour enabling environment like SAFEnetwork, people will buy SAfECoin to access altcoins on the SAFENet. SAfECoin will always be needed for core network operations, but I do see other coins (still holding out for gamerbits - LOL) created on the SAFEnetwork trading on exchanges. People just need to get in quick with their ideas in the SAFENet.

Creating coins doesn’t have to be a static event either, project could spring up and ‘mine’ altcoins.

Here’s one idea I just thought up.

Open Safe Maps
≠=============

Mapping streets is a difficult problem, at one point Google released a gameificated application that insentivised people to walk paths.

My coin, MapCoin, is a coin available on the SAFEnetwork. It is earned by a SAFENet powered app on your mobile, you earn MapCoin by walking GPS routes that are new or either confirmed. The exact algorithm is secret and runs on the networks compute. The algorithm ensures that routes that are seem more legitimate receive a payout.

MapCoin can be used to unlock further services on the application, step counts, advanced route finding, advert placement on the map for your business, and many more! MapCoin is tradable on many exchanges.

Don’t delay, download the MapCoin SAFEApp/Dapper today and start earning map coins.

=========

There… One plausible business model for a completely different coin running on SAFENet.

I’m sure there are many more coin ideas.

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Why does anyone do anything? control… control of power and control of money. Big buisness would rather have their own safe fork with their choice of how much money there is, who starts off with the most of it, THEIR OWN DOMAIN NAMES reserved, etc etc etc… it’s nice to think safenet will be the end all be all, but i’ll say it a hundred more times, we’ve had so much evidence of the entire blockchain revolution, theres no reason on earth to think it wont play out any differently with safenet.