Freemasonry (split)

@southside - This is not an attempt to aggravate you. I am aware of the elitist interest in the implementation of communism as a political strategy to maintain their own dominance. The fabian society were and are notorious for promoting the introduction of ‘slow communism’. Their interest in it has nothing to do with the ‘rights of man’ - and everything to do with the maintenance of a ruling class.
This excerpt from Juri Lina’s book ‘Architects of Deception’ is extensive, I know - but it is relevant if by no means complete. There are many other sources available for referencing and cross referencing points raised in the following…

" On 7 November 1883, a group gathered to discuss the formation of a new and potentially influential society. The group was split into two factions, and on 4 January 1884 one of these factions founded the Fabian Society. On 25 January, J. G. Stapleton was appointed its first chairman. The aim of the society was a slow and secret introduction of socialism, which accounts for its name, taken from the Roman military leader Quintus Fabius Maximus Cunctator (The Delayer). Through a clever manoeuvre he defeated the much larger army of Hannibal. The other faction carried on its activities for another fifteen years under the name of The Fellowship.

In May 1884, the Masonic journalist George Bernard Shaw became a member. (He received the Nobel Prize for literature in 1925.) He was relatively soon promoted to one of the leading Fabians. His mistress Florence Farr was a member of the Order of the Golden Dawn. Shaw suggested never calling socialism by its true name, in order not to frighten people away. He labelled himself a Marxist socialist.

In March 1885, the freemason Sidney James Webb (1859-1947) became a member, and the next year Graham Wallas, another Freemason, also joined. Shaw, Webb, Wallas and Sidney Olivier were called “the great four”. Sidney Webb founded the London School of Economics in 1895. It received economic contributions from the Masonic bankers Rothschild, Julius Wernher, and Ernest Capel. In 1912, Webb founded a propagandist periodical, The New Statesman. He was later to be found among the leaders of the Labour Party.

Other members of this group were the freemasons Edward Pease, Havelock Ellis, Frank Podmore, Annie Besant, John Galsworthy, R. H. Tawney, G. D. H, Cole, Harold Laski, Israel Zangwill, and Israel Cohen.

Fabianism also spread to other countries, among them the United States and Australia, as well as Canada, New Zealand, Denmark, Germany, Spain and India. In the United States the most influential Fabianist was Dean Acheson, who in 1933 did all he could to persuade the USA to recognize the Soviet Union.

The writer, freemason and intelligence agent Herbert George Wells became a member in February 1903. That Wells was a freemason was made clear in the magazine The American Mason (October 2001, p. 24). The Grand Lodge of Minnesota confirms Wells’ membership. Wells wished to act more openly and intensively and suggested the name be changed to The British Socialist Society. The conspiracy leadership did not approve of this suggestion, and in 1908 he left the group.

The secret goal of this group was to establish an atheistic, classless, socialist society, which would prepare the way for the final victory - communism. In 1891, the group joined the Second Internationale, which was created by the freemasons with the intention of turning England into a socialist country.

In 1890, the Fabians left the Liberal Party. Thereafter, they helped found the Labour Representation Committee, which in 1906 became the Labour Party, which in 1918 took over all the main ideas of the Fabian Society.

By 1946, the Fabian Society had 8400 members, among them Bertrand Russell, (Pandit) Motilal Nehru, father of India’s first Prime Minister Jawaharlal Nehru, Ramsey MacDonald (British prime minister 1924, 1929-35), Julian Huxley, Aldous Huxley and John Maynard Keynes. A member was also Harold Wilson, who later became prime minister. Almost half the Labour MPs were Fabians.

The society’s headquarters can be found at 11 Dartmouth Street in London. It publishes The Fabian Journal and The Fabian News Magazine. The fabianists demand a total nationalization of industry…"

(Taken from ‘Architects of Deception’ - Chapter 6, subsection entitled ‘The Hidden Influence’ - pages 335 - 355, This excerpt - pages 335-337…)

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Just to add, that freemasons have been involved in many many groups - because decades ago, anyone political or connected was a freemason - joining was a simple way to meet others and get involved in many other things.

Today freemasonry is dying out. How do I know? Well I’ll come out of the closet - I am a freemason. Uh-oh, here come the conspiracy peeps.

Well all the lodges I’ve been to - (we are encouraged to visit other lodges) I’m one of the youngest members (by a large margin!!) - and I’m over 50.

I’d also like to say that, like myself, there are many that are libertarian oriented and I don’t know a single one that supports any form of communism.

That said, there are lodges around globe and I’m sure you can always find some freemasons who believe in it or some other radical idea. We are just humans in the end and there is a bit of crazy in all of us.


I have heard other freemasons assert that they, and their lodge, have nothing to do with the kind of horrors associated with sabbatean-frankist, inner sect, luciferian freemasonry.

Freemasonry is a cult within a cult. The ‘invisible sect’ depend on the ignorance and good works of the visible sect - who provide a cover.

The very fact that you are declaring that your lodge and their activities have nothing to do with atrocities, means my friend, that you are in the visible sect. Your genuine humanity excludes you from the invite to its obfuscated counterpart.

I do not dispute the good works done by many a decent hearted individual who happens to have joined a lodge. That said, I personally find the whole project elitist and nauseating and it wouldnt and doesnt appeal to me. But thats not to say that I cant comprehend why it would although its a total con.

My point is, that inner sect, sabbatean-frankist/luciferian freemasons are using the visible sect as a cover. A fleece for the wolves to hide behind. Neither fair to wolves nor sheep to involve them in an metaphor, but since i’ve been discussing the fabians - and that is their emblem - a wolf in sheeps clothing - alongside the motto ‘hammer sofly/pray devoutly’ - Its an apt reference.

Bottom line - you seem like a really good human being and I’m sorry you’ve found yourself caught up in freemasonry. Its a rotten organisation.

we will have to disagree on that. You sound convinced, and I’ve argued with a lot of conspiracy peeps on the web about it - usually I point out that if you haven’t experienced it, you really don’t know what it’s about and you are merely relying on others for your information … and there are other groups that definitely use freemasonry as a means to distract people from realizing who the real enemies are - IMO, the banksters and the communists.

Also, please be careful with the use of the word “cult” It has a specific meaning and using it loosely is a disservice to those who are really trapped in cults.

There is no inner sect in freemasonry. Sorry to have to call you on that, but freemasonry is very egalitarian. There are other lodges besides the main “blue” lodge, but each is it’s own domain and has no control over any other.

We aren’t really supposed to talk about our “work” (we practice humility) … but I will tell you that mostly what we “do” is raise money for charity - specifically we’ve donated a large amount for people who are victims of natural disasters and such. We also help support old-folks homes - I suppose our “inner sanctum” is getting pretty old and thinking of their own future that regard … lol.


I haven’t ever wanted to become a mason, but its rather assumptive of you to say that I am merely relying on others for information with no other experience - I haven’t ever explained to this forum how or why I became so focused on researching freemasonry - and I dont plan to - but suffice to say this interest spans over three decades…

I hear you - I really do. And it doesnt surprise me that you would continue to defend the organisation. Why wouldnt you? That’s earmarked as your role. I have read your posts and consider you a very intelligent, fair and kind human being. I am not trying to undermine your value on the planet in any way - simply declaring that I consider you as part of a cult and as such it may be difficult for you to do anything but defend it at this point.
I’ve studied this subject extensively, and I can’t say its been fun. Here is an excerpt from a long ‘quote’ post (although shorter than it was!) from a few years back…


Subtitle: This is a short article we hope every Mason will read before he begins to read any of our other articles. There is a Masonic organization out there most of you know nothing of, even if you are a 33rd Degree Mason.

We have constantly received emails from Freemasons who are absolutely anguished over our articles depicting Masonry as being Satanic. They honestly proclaim to us that this is NOT the situation in their Lodge; further, they say, they are 32nd or 33rd Degree, and would certainly know what Freemasonry is and what it is not; and, they boldly proclaim: Masonry is NOT Satanic.

Simply put, Freemasonry is an organization within an organization. One organization is deliberately lied to and mislead with false interpretations, while the inner organization knows the spiritual Truth of Freemasonry, and embraces it with heart, soul, and mind.


Let us hear Masonic author Manly P. Hall describe this two-dimensional organization of Freemasonry. Masonry is comprised of two distinctly different organizations, one visible and one invisible. Hall describes this two-level organization: [Hall was honored by The Scottish Rite Journal, who called him ‘The Illustrious Manly P. Hall’ in Sept, 1990, and further called him ‘Masonry’s Greatest Philosopher’, saying “The world is a far better place because of Manly Palmer Hall, and we are better persons for having known him and his work”]. This is what Manly P. Hall said:

" Freemasonry is a fraternity within a fraternity – an outer organization concealing an inner brotherhood of the elect … it is necessary to establish the existence of these two separate and yet interdependent orders, the one visible and the other invisible. The visible society is a splendid camaraderie of ‘free and accepted’ men enjoined to devote themselves to ethical, educational, fraternal, patriotic, and humanitarian concerns. The invisible society is a secret and most August [defined as ‘of majestic dignity, grandeur’] fraternity whose members are dedicated to the service of a mysterious arcannum arcandrum [defined as ‘a secret, a mystery’]." [Hall, Lectures on Ancient Philosophy, p. 433]

Albert Mackey, 33rd Degree Mason and author of the informative “Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry”, 1873, confirms Hall’s revelation.

“Visible Masonry: In a circular published March 18, 1775, by the Grand Orient of France, reference is made to two divisions of the Order, namely, Visible and Invisible Masonry … by ‘Invisible Masonry’ they denoted that body of intelligent and virtuous Masons who, irrespective of any connection with dogmatic authorities, constituted a ‘Mysterious and Invisible Society of the True Sons of Light’, who, scattered over the two hemisphere, were engaged, with one heart and soul in doing everything for the glory of the Great Architect and for the good of their fellow-men.”

In other words, the members of the Invisible Masonry are the true leaders who cooperate on a global scale for the Great Architect to achieve the Great Work, which is the New World Order. What, then, is the purpose of the Visible Lodge?

“By ‘Visible Masonry’ they meant the congregation of Masons into Lodges, which were often affected by the contagious vices of the age in which they lived. The former is perfect; the latter continually needs purification.” (Albert Mackey, 33rd Degree, “Encyclopaedia of Freemasonry”, 1873, page 829)

In other words, Masons of the Invisible Lodge are the truly “Perfected Men”, while the poor regular Masons of the Visible Lodge are afflicted with the “contagious vices of the age in which they lived”. Mackey holds Masons of the Visible Lodge in very, very low esteem. And, notice that Masonry has divided itself into these two Lodges a very long time agao, in 1775! Masonry has almost always been this way.

Many well-meaning men are members of this visible society with no knowledge whatsoever of the inner invisible society. In fact, Albert Pike had some things to say about the brethren in the visible society:

“Masonry, like all the Religions, all the Mysteries, Hermeticism, and Alchemy, conceals its secrets from all except the Adepts and Sages, or the Elect, and uses false explanations and misinterpretations of its symbols to mislead those who deserve only to be mislead; to conceal the Truth, which it calls light, and draw them away from it.” [Morals and Dogma, p. 104-5, 3rd Degree]…"

Actually, we aren’t supposed to talk about it at all - part of the whole humility thing. So no role there … TBH, I really don’t know why so many believe the stuff out there about freemasons … I was a bit suspicious myself BEFORE I became one. But I’ve met all of the oldest masons in my area, some have gone through all the other lodges and they are all just average folks … I should clarify that the term ‘lodge’ has two meanings in freemasonry, there are the physical buildings which are called lodges, but there are also different groups that meet in the buildings that are also called lodges, so can be confusing to an outsider.

assumptive? Maybe, but you’ve just confirmed that you aren’t one …

But if you’ve never joined, then you are still relying on other people’s research.

I know about Albert Pike. Something that ALWAYS comes up in every discussion I’ve had with people on this matter - they always refer to Pike.

So I’m a mason and I’ve met hundreds of masons and I’ve attended a lot of meetings … and I’ve not seen a hint of the stuff Pike writes about … yet you and many who apparently hold your opinions all seem to think Pike is some sort of authority … As far as I know, he’s never been a freemason. If he was, he IMO had an agenda or was a bit crazy and decided to write what he did.

So I’ve the experience of hundreds of people, you’ve got Pike … Does that seem like a balanced analysis to you? I know there are others who wrote against freemasonry as well, but how many are themselves referencing Pike? Most of them I’d bet on it.

In my view … you’ve been conned. Please watch that video I just posted in “watch this video”.

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So Albert Pike happening to be one time Grand Master of the scottish rite isnt well known in masonic circles? But one has to be a mason in order to know anything about it? From what you’ve just said, being a visible sect freemason is clearly one of the best vantage points to know absolutely nothing about the inner sect…
Hey look. I appreciate everything you are saying as one hundred percent genuine, from your perspective and I will be more than happy to continue this discussion…
Its just that its 4am here, and even my new blue light blocking goggles are not enough to save me from the headache of discussing obfuscated occult ideology in the very early hours of the morning…plus that habit is one reason I gave the laptop a good rest for a while…@TylerAbeoJordan I consider this a serious topic and since its highly likely to get split into its own thread after our friendly moderators have had breakfast…I will look forward to returning with some dazzling displays of mental gymnastics, or at least not typing odifjaojfhvwenb987v as my head thunks on the keyboard through sheer exhaustion.
Anyway, its good to know you’re up for the discussion - thank you. Its sleep o clock here so all the best to you and type soon!

Nope! I’m afraid not.

I didn’t say that at all - you’re putting words in my mouth - not cool. I’m simply saying that the voices and experiences of many outweigh the voice of one - especially when it comes to disparaging.

There is no such thing as this as I’ve explained. IMO, your mind appears closed.

C’mon now … you are making grand statements and providing NO evidence. We haven’t discussed ANY ideology really … I’ve just stated what we do mostly. Again, I feel as though your mind is really closed on this matter.

Thank you for your response, although I found it rather disappointing. To quote an earlier post:

Albert PIke was a one time ‘Grand Master’ freemason, though his official title, in the world of freemasonry and at large - was ‘Sovereign Grand Commander of the Southern Jurisdiction of the Scottish Rite’
Unlike much surrounding freemasonry, this is no secret. I am only providing Wikipedia links to demonstrate this clearly, and to highlight the fact that you are already displaying profound information deficits regarding the organisation you have elected to align yourself with. Incidentally, I found the video you linked to me to be slightly ridiculous, although it alerted me to the possibility that there may be visible sect freemasons - who, like yourself have joined by choice, and actually have the audacity to declare themselves ‘an oppressed minority’ '. Elitism is, by very definition a selective grouping furthering the aims and interests of that self elected minority.,Scottish_Rite(Southern_Jurisdiction,_USA)

The first philosophical document of the Mother Supreme Council of the World was Morals and Dogma of the Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry,” written by Confederate General Albert Pike (Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite’s Southern Jurisdiction; head of the Mother Supreme Council of the World) in 1872. A copy of Morals & Dogma was given to every new member in the Southern Jurisdiction until 1974, when it was deemed "too advanced to be helpful to the new Scottish Rite member."

As stated above - after 1974 ‘Morals & Dogma’ was no longer in the welcome pack…I am also very aware of the efforts made by many visible sect freemasons to distance themselves from PIke - here is an article, written by a 32’nd degree freemason discussing the issue. I can attest to this reticence to associate with pike being a common occurence amongst visible sect freemasons - as evidenced by yourself in an earlier post, but to be fair most freemasons know enough about their cult to at least have ascertained that PIke was an extremely influential member.

"I have some comments concerning the letter from “Padre Lee” on the matter of Anti-Masonry (HWWN #9811). I would have to guess that the writer is either a Northern Jurisdiction Scottish Rite Mason, or a “Blue-Lodge” Mason who has elected not to seek further light in Scottish Rite Masonry, perfectly acceptable choices for any Master Mason.
The reason I say this is because of his statements concerning Albert Pike. Bro. Padre Lee says that “no one except the critics of Freemasonry take Pike’s books seriously.” This is a patently untrue statement! It is also potentially dangerous when made to an anti-mason. Because it so easy to refute, this statement could cloud the balance of a Mason’s defense of the Craft.
Most of Brother Pike’s writings are still considered valuable resources by the members of the Southern Jurisdiction of Scottish Rite Masonry. Our Southern Jurisdiction, which represents the Scottish Rite Masons in 34 American States and nearly all the foreign countries of the world, continues to practice the degrees written by Bro. Pike. Our good Brother Lee must also be unaware that as recently as 1993 Brother Pike was referred to as “The world’s foremost scholar of Scottish Rite Masonry” in a new book “A GLOSSARY TO MORALS AND DOGMA” written by Dr. Rex R. Hutchens, 33* and published by the Supreme Council, 33* Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, Southern Jurisdiction at Washington D.C. Another recent book by the same author and publisher is titled “THE BIBLE IN ALBERT PIKE’S ‘MORALS AND DOGMA’”. Here Pike is called “the great man and Mason whose genius shaped the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for the world today…”

The reason I referred to ‘obfuscated occult ideology’ is because that is exactly where conversations about inner sect freemasons will lead - aside from common genealogical ties to one another, grease and palms, a twisted religious ideology based on sabbatean frankist luciferianism represents an intrinsic and cohesive factor.

As someone in the visible sect, I dont expect you to either know about this nor be receptive to my assertions - any more than a hardened trump supporter will believe that he is in fact working in the interests of the british crown and whose membership in the scottish rite southern jurisdiction plays a huge factor in his placement as president.

I will return to continue this conversation with you, and further discuss the ‘cult within a cult’ that freemasonry represents - after you have done some research into Albert Pike, and perhaps investigated the impact of * sabbatean-frankism on the freemasonic project in the 18th century.

Best wishes to you

  • chapter 13 of ‘Terrorism and the Illuminati- a three thousand year history’ offers a basic introduction - The author undoubtedly has an Islamic bias - though I found the entire text to be truly excellently researched and well presented. As ever on the all titles are available to download in a variety of formats. Here is an excerpt from said chapter, Again, best wishes to you and I look forward to further discussion.

"Lurianic Kabbalah, also known as the New Kabbalah, the most pivotal
formulation in the modern history of that occult branch of Judaism, and its
prescriptions for actively seeking the fulfillment of prophecy, became the core
doctrine of the modern occult underground. Therefore, Freemasonry, which
too was forged from Lurianic Kabbalah, and founded in the Rosicrucian
conspiracy that united the divergent heritage of the House of Guelph and the
House of Stuart, was aligned, in the eighteenth century, with the most central
development of this school, when it was infiltrated by the Illuminati. The goal
of this organization was to fulfill the ancient dream of Plato, of establishing a
New World Order, governed by an elite instructed in the occult.
Therefore, the question of Jewish involvement or responsibility for the
scheming of the Illuminati has since plagued investigators with accusations of
anti-Semitism. However, Rabbi Marvin Antelman has recently resolved the
issue by exposing that the Illuminati was operated by a fringe Gnostic group of
Judaism, known as the Shabbateans, incepted by the false-messiah, Shabbetai
Zevi. Despite the movement’s growing influence over the coming centuries,
their malevolent designs were largely kept secret from the rest of the Jewish
community, and were often inimical to it. And, this ignorance would continue
to be fostered by the Illuminati, who would to barricade themselves behind
these same accusations of anti-Semitism…"

You don’t know this. What lodge was he in? Go there and ask if he was a member - they will have records.

Anyone can say they are a Mason … anybody can say what they want, can lie all they want about masonry - because on the whole we aren’t going to defend the organization - we have no fund or paid employees to counter the lies of other people. Masonry is VOLUNTARY.

Edit: I would also add that even if he was a mason, which is possible … he’s one guy out of hundreds of thousands (total past and present masons) … so if you are going to claim that what one guy says true and none of the others agree with it … the bar for evidence is a lot higher for you than for me.

It doesnt sound like you read my last post.

I skimmed and it all appeared to revolve around Pike, which I have no reason to give any credence to.

You didn’t respond to my points either, so I could say the same about you.

I’ve met hundreds of masons @ElsieDee - hundreds … I’m not going to give any serious consideration to what one man said over a hundred years ago relative to that … surely you can understand that.

edit … and aside from the my own experiences with other masons, I’ve seen nothing of any sort of a conspiracy within masonry (excepting the debate we had on what kind of new heating system to install in our building a few years back - I’m sure they were plotting against my opinion!!) - if there was it would still amount to nothing on a big scale

It didnt bode well that you removed the part of the statement referring to his title - Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite’s Southern Jurisdiction
I included an excerpt of an article written by a 32nd degree mason, detailing the controversy surrounding Pike and the way in which visible sect freemasons often attempt to distance themselves from him and his publications - when in fact up until 1974 all new members of the cult were given a copy of ‘Morals & Dogma’ as an introductory gift…
It is going to be difficult to continue having a discussion with you if you refuse to acknowledge his status as a senior figure in freemasonry, clearly located in historical fact.

But that means NOTHING.

I hereby declare that I am the Sovereign Grand Commander of the Scottish Rite’s Southern Jurisdiction.

Do you believe me?

I’ve explained from the beginning that Pike’s testimony is that of one man compared to hundreds of thousands of other happy freemasons. Why would you think I was going to just change my mind on that point when you make no logical assertion as to why I should?

You are just pushing ancient propaganda in my view and you’ve given me zero reasons to trust it.

Where are the masons coming out to back up Pike’s assertions? If he wasn’t a liar, their would be some somewhere right? In fact there should be hundreds if not thousands and they would have formed an anti-masonic group – I know if I found evidence of an evil conspiracy, I’d talk about it with the other masons, we’d verify it and then we’d simply vote for our lodge to break away from the other lodge or lodges … before that we’d present the evidence to other lodges (by travelling to them as we do all the time anyway and giving talks to them - as we do all the time anyway).

you keep stating this as well (implying there is a hidden group) and I’ve said it’s untrue - yet you won’t back it up with any evidence.

If you continue to argue for things without reason and evidence, then your mind is closed and there is no point of further discussion.

Frankly, my dear, nobody does… sorry

No, but that means nothing as nobody believes much of what you say.