Fleming Testnet v4 Release - *NOW OFFLINE - v5 RELEASED*

OK cool +chars

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Wow, I really wasn’t expecting one this week :blush: best of luck team


Go go go, we will follow, thanks for V4.2, looking forward to V5!


Now at Preparing for Testnet 5

So - how can we best prepare for Testnet v5?

Off the top of my head…

  • Remember you can assist with testing without necessarily running a node immediately or even at all

  • Have some data prepared that you can start uploading immediately T5 goes live. Some simple single text files and images that can easily be downloaded to confirm functionality and build confidence in both the PUT and GET commands.

  • Also have some larger folders and sub-folders that can be uploaded, so that we can practise using the full range of the safe files sub-commands

  • Further to the above, if you have websites that you built for earlier test networks, try uploading these again. This will let us get more confidence with the safe nrs sub-commands as well. I note also that GitHub - maidsafe/sn_nodejs has been getting some love today…

  • We have a few days before T5 will land. TIme that can be used to build your own sites for the SAFE Network.

  • safe://yvette was an early directory of many resources on SAFE back in the day - Hopefully this can be revived/refreshed

  • There was a great single page site that simply said “hello World” in many different languages - Be nice to see that reincarnated too.

  • Dig out your PIs and other SBCs if you haven’t already and get them prepared to act as nodes. A LOT has been learned over the past couple of weeks, lets get that know-how shared, refined and all in one location to make it as easy as possible for the largest number of folk to try running a node - THis goes for PS as well, not just Pis and other small interesting things

I’ll add to this later- perhaps this should be its own topic and perhaps a wiki so it can be corrected and other items added? But lets get the initial post up now and get folks thinking :slight_smile:


If there will be same problems in v5 with nodes, which looks like frozen, it will be possible to write a script to upload a small file to network every minute or so.
Here is torrent magnet link to collection of useful small files for example:
(large file upload takes too much RAM, so it is not a good choice. also with small files you can tune delay)


Good point, I use these dummy files for testing the network, you get 5MB to 1GB files for Put Get tests:


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This may be handy for text file generation:

for i in {1..10}; do base64 /dev/urandom | head -c $((1024*5)) > file.txt; safe files put file.txt; done

This will loop 10 times and create a random text file named file.txt of 5KB in size and upload it using safe files put. You can adjust as you like for bigger/smaller files etc. I haven’t looked into image files but it’ll save having to download large files just to upload them again.

Edit: Fixed formatting so it displays properly.


Since the design is not yet in place, this confusing discrepancy is removed, and thus single chunks are now called chunks instead of blobs.
BREAKING CHANGE: Blob is renamed to Chunk.


An anonymous digital bearer certificate like digital cash. Problem with that is while its great for buying weed and paying for sex or paying for a private hook up room it also enables laundering the darkest end of the black market (stuff like ordering hits and crimes) and financial warfare.

Maybe they can’t stop it someplace in outter space but pretty sure states within their jurisdictions and internationally through collaborations like interpol will make it contraband subject to siezure and its possesion a felony. They will shut down the cryptos that aren’t bitcoin by forcing their conversion to BT or their individual fiats- wonder if they will force taxation at the point of conversion in their fiats. This has precedent witj what the US did with gold but they will be much more agressive here I’d guess. Maidsafe needs to have a network that can work without the crypto and they have to becareful with the in kind income- because this stuff simply won’t be allowed. Remember when they told FaceBook to fk off with its Libra? Remember when the US shut down all the private currencies the banks were once allowed to issue? Remember the US’s battles over the contenental dollar and green backs. In these creative periods a little window is opened and once something good enough arises the window slams shut.

Having a reliable source of info and communication is more important than having creative money or an alternative accessible stabile store of value although such a store is important.

Looks like T5 will start Today.

This is a tired argument and can be used against safe network tokens or indeed any data that a state does not want to be published or transferred.

Imo, you have to let the technology be neutral and let governments fight it out over what they want to filter. They can insist on crippled versions of the client are used which filters data and removes functionality, for example.

Given different things are illegal in different jurisdictions, there is no one size fits all. Given the jurisdiction may also be corrupt and in need of circumventing for the good of the populous, the network must be agnostic.

The network can generate its own internal economy for those fearing on/off ramps being cut. Having an internal market to farm and buy data is a strong point for safe network, as it reduces the need for on/off ramps.


Can’t you do this with cash? Freedom of choice shouldn’t be viewed as a problem.


Yes you can, and there’s a trend towards eliminating cash, and treating anyone with large amounts of cash as a criminal while hiding money offshore is barely considered an issue. Criminal and corrupt money laundering through those mechanisms is a well known and much bigger problem. So we can expect there to be issues.

I don’t though see the solution as not having a token at all. We should have a mix of traceable and anonymous means of exchange, and Safe Network can deliver both in a way that is technically superior to all existing solutions - assuming it delivers at all.

We can expect a mix of responses to this, some draconian, some very permissive and others in the middle. Some might even notice the benefits!


Too many assumptions and confusions… repeating those do not change the reality. Just because Governments “say” something, does not make it true!

The lazy solution of decoupling money from real world and creating fiat with alsorts of leveraging for free, has caused a huge liability and is the source of much confusion - inside of Governments and out.

Still, the reality of what is money; what is capital; what is real value in utility, matters. Cryptocurrency is not money - and it’s not even fiat. One of the base errors Governments are making is to assume crypto is fiat but it’s obviously not - if I list a billion UUIDs and sell one for a dollar, I am not a billionaire; the speculation about what might have value in future, where that is not linked to real world value or utility, is just speculation - Governments value their chatter but mostly talk is hot air… and they do believe their own nonsense… try making those who print fiat think in those terms… the US gov is just about to magic another couple of trillion dollars - the idiocy knows no bounds and believe no consequence…

So, what matters is only where tokens have utility or value in the real world - linked to an asset or at the point they are exchanged for a real world asset - the exchange into fiat is an excusable exception but only because it if Government backed - no other token like that holds value until the point of exchange. That is digital bearer certificates are worth nothing until the point of exchange… because unlike fiat, they are not Government backed legal objects. When I replied to the open call on Digital Currencies a long while ago, I encouraged the legal support for crypto to be realised but UK gov is not so clever as to indulge innovation and seems intent on fighting progress… which is the lazy conservative default that is becoming too familiar.

I ramble because the frustration of what Government presents is quite annoying at times… so different from what we deserve.


tldr; no reason to indulge idiocy from Governments or to be distracted by speculation, from what is necessarily the direction of travel.


David I don’t have the understanding to follow you on a lot of that. But it seems clear to me open reliable communication systems that can’t be tampered with or at least that buy us another chunk of time are what is so desperately needed especially against state power and against any source of concentrated power- private included. I would hate to see that compromised over money grubbing. I do not accept that money is speech any more than I accept arbitrary might makes right.
Must be missing something crucial except David Irivine had the vision for this network before the crypto currency piece was a goal and I would like to see that restored. I don’t know the space but its seems its 1 in 1000 or less that wants to see the space was born in a US black project and it amounted to a state sponsored kick starter to fill in a piece of the fiat puzzle- and that project was BT and that puzzle piece inferior or not is BT because it only had to be good enough and catch on- it was made of nothing more ultimately than psychological vestment. I am not down on fiat to me it feels like a far greater innovation than crypto currency will ever be, crypto just makes it better. But some are really bothered that in an absolute commons other people can choose how assets are valued and their choosing affects that value. Is their a way to get rid of that? And as for magic trillions coming into existence- what macines can produce more?

Alan Watts gave this talk where people have thus guilt mechsnism that says if you don’t work you don’t eat and all the hording and power games that go with it. But it was clear to him with punch card computers there was sufficient automation to free us from toil forever. But the problem was as soon as someone said you don’t have to work people would stupidly react in panic and inflate their currency demanding more and more if it fir the exchange of goods ceasing to believe it had stabile value and undermine themselves. Maybe BT as an increasingly stabile store of value and really nothing else will help us take those hand cuffs off. Maybe not. If we’re paying attention the Biden admin isn’t printing anymore money than it normally does with some damn lame thing like a fossil fuel bailout war and a lot less than with the last fossil fuel bail with TARP.
Modern Monetary Theory oooh some people don’t like it because it recognizes the rich have what they have because the state gave it to them and it recognizes the state can give the rich a haircut without taxes or paper. It also recognizes that government spending in excess of taxes no longer equals unwanted or unnecessary or even too much inflation. Its the magic of fiat finally starting to be worked out.

:thinking: a wall of text with nuggets

Fiat is a great innovation but unbounded is a liability.
and it’s not magic!.. its prejudiced; supports the status quo; and resists change… stale, stagnant ideas that inhibit innovation are the same.

Modern Monetary Theory is just another tool to ensure power is retained and wielded, it is not about what is better for all - it is about what is better for those who hold power now and their prospects going forward. Look it up the definition is blatant “Modern Monetary Theory ( MMT ) is a heterodox macroeconomic framework that says monetarily sovereign countries like the U.S., U.K., Japan, and Canada, which spend, tax, and borrow in a fiat currency they fully control, are not operationally constrained…”

They can do what they want… how nice for them.

“Happy” slaves are we, until then. The masters like their slaves to behave and the illusion of social mobility frustrated just enough to inhibit much change in who has power and who does not.

As for crypto being better than fiat… perhaps it will prove to be but it has a long way to go yet. It depends your frame of reference the value of it; if a community values something, then by definition it holds value relative to that - but that is not money or capital, without a solid lock to real world assets and law. Fiat is only viable because of the force of the barrel of a gun behind it… or nukes… reason that UK increased the limit on how many they can provoke the world with and reason the bullies suggest who cannot have nukes - while that threat is there, we can for practical purposes consider the GBP holds value as money - and expect to be taxed relative to that or what is real capital - crypto is not that… I doubt will be for a long while yet.

#offtopic again

tldr; money is a dull topic

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You forget that the State are the rich these days. Why would they compromise their wealth?
I mean the people who hold the reins of power in each and every State

With Fleming Testnet v5 now released, this topic has been locked.

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