[fiction?] GCHQ, NSA have got wind of MAID and they don't like it, how would you plan their escape so they can continue their work?

GCHQ and other agencies are in for a shock. :wink:

SAFEnetwork needs to have a minimum viable product out ASAP.

… and does maidsafe have a continuation/contingency plan for any variety of black swan disruptions?

There are a wide range of nationalities on this forum, and I hope soon on a forum on the SAFEnetwork, that could help with an escape plan.

There are places a stone’s throw from Scotland that don’t have extradition agreements,

But! Some of these countries that claim they don’t have extradition agreements have the biggest US bases and activities, which puts you at risk of kidnap.

Cross reference with list of countries that have US military bases…

So… people… if you needed to escape, where would you go and what would your plan be?

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Since I promised to participate, I’ll start. Once an individual has been targeted, I don’t think he can escape anywhere, even if he goes to the moon or to the depths of the Mariana Trench. Modern technology will find him and “neutralize” him. That is why the decentralized SAFE is needed. The powers that be can bomb however many servers they like, and kill as many people as they like. Once the network is up, the network itself will survive. I hope.

McAffee seems to have managed quite well. There was a report he was in custody recently, but haven’t seen it confirmed.

I think the first thing you would need is independent transport, maybe a :sailboat: and I know Maidsafe have a qualified captain at the helm already.

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And I do like rough seas where not many fare too well with plenty of storms to knock out electronics. I think we will be set Mark. :smiley:

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Realistically if big governments want you, they will have you eventually. You might evade for awhile but they will track you down one way or another and they will only get more efficient at it year after year with newer advanced technologies.

The question folks at the top of the list for being hunted should be what are they willing to sacrifice for what they believe in :slight_smile: . For now SAFENetwork is not even on the radar realistically. Now if the network launches and they find out they are struggling to track down folks using the network, and they don’t like the activity they see present on it. well then its important the people who built it will be in a position where they can’t destroy or inject bad code down the road. One of those things you release and can never reign it back in.

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More civilized countries usually don’t extradite their own born citizens easily (yet). Look at thepiratebay in Sweden, they did not get extradited. UK is not a good place to be in that regard, but otherwise it seems to me that the safest is to stay where you were born. That’s what I would do personally if I was at risk.

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The question is why any government would want any of the developers. Once the network is up … it’s up … so no point after that. Really all they can do even now is delay it. Certainly not a crime anywhere that I know of to write software … unless maybe it’s a virus.

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Indeed!

Also to most observers the SAFE network is practically invisible, although it is being built right before our eyes. What I mean is: even to those outsiders closest to this project, most crypto fans, and crypto market hacks, still think it is a blockchain project. Few get what it is all about. And when they do open thier eyes, it’ll be too late to stop it. I thus consider MAIDSAFE’S invisibility advantageous at this point.

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Looking at it from the other perspective - if you have no fear of these agencies or organizations - and also the benefits of SAFE are far wider and far- reaching than privacy, what options or features would be available to demonstrate that everything you are doing on the network is above board / transparent? E.g. on a simple level to a tax authority, and then from there upwards!

None, and there shouldn’t be, as those mechanisms could be exploited by authorities.

I don’t really think the fear should be in whether or not the NSA, MI5, etc. would track down the developers, but that they would systematically work to destabilize or take shadow control of the network. First, I think it is silly to assume the NSA isn’t at all aware of this project. They pay a lot of really smart people a lot of money to be on top of the newest technologies and to create contingency plans about how to neutralize the potential threats. The NSA has the resources, especially early on in the network lifecycle, to maintain control of a large majority of network nodes, enough to ruin the network, or get something nefarious into the nodes. They (supposedly) are already doing this with Tor exit nodes.

By simply controlling enough, they control the network. They could shut off all their servers at a moment’s notice and crash the entire network, ruining its reputation overnight, or they could try to maintain some large amount of the node base in an effort to take control of sections, such that they may be able to take actions against the network, unknowingly.

Is an individual compiling a tax declaration a potential exploit? I think we risk alienating people if we consider this project only as a Swiss safety deposit box. Talking here more about the individuals using the network rather than the developers.

Like many 3 or 4 letter agencies, they probably outsource a lot of what they do - to fund the pockets of their chums who own the contractor agencies. … with people barley making the grade to do much advanced stuff. There are probably diamonds in the rough but not nearly as many that are as tech advanced - especially to take on the SAFEnetwork, a 30 string Ayr-team is just about getting their head around the SAFEnetwork. Do they NSA have talented resources to “shadow” every project out there? No. Did they bring down Bitcoin? No.

The only way the NSA or other agency will ever understand the network is if David, or other staff go on to work for security services.

It will go as far as agencies wanting in on secure Comms and offer jobs to the maid team members.

There is no reason to bring down Bitcoin. It is a public ledger that can be exploited to identify people. In fact, it is kind of a win for them, because people assume it is anonymous, it is not.

It isn’t like Maidsafe is something new and under the radar. It is a pretty well known project in the crypto world. Most people have written it off, but that doesn’t mean these agencies have. They also don’t have to understand the entire network, just how to exploit it. If they know they just need some % of the total nodes to be about to exploit it, they can certainly fund that while barely scratching the surface of their budget.

We can rejoice that humans are pretty shitty at preventive measures, and most actions by both legal or physical persons are reactive and short-term thinkers by nature.

As long as the SafeNetwork is not live, it will not blip on their radar. It will be a matter of concern once the SafeNetwork hits a critical mass, and by then it will be to late to intervene.

Btw, replying OP’s hypothetical scenario, Argentina is a very attractive destination. You can get an Argentinean citizenship after living legally 2 years only (and the term “legally” is quite generous here, permanent residence visa is not a prerequisite). Tax wise not very attractive, but if you need a new citizenship and a new passport it is one of the strongest ones you can get it express without any investment requirement.
(But once you have the Argentinean citizenship you can get an Uruguayan permanent residence certificate in a month, which it does grant a 100% tax exception for foreign passive capital income for 5 years)

Public healthcare in Argentina is free and excellent (although its bureaucracy is hellish) and private healthcare is world-class and very cheap.

And once you are an Argentinean citizen, you can apply for a Spanish citizenship by living two years in Spain (taking advantage of a decree that allows citizens of ex-spanish colonies to get a faster naturalization)

Regards,

PS: btw, extradition-wise, all of Latin America has extradition treaties with both the UK and US.
If you are looking for countries that don’t have extradition treaties with either country and also the best living standards: Kuwait, Qatar, China. The bad news, the first two countries you must live more than 20 years to even consider getting a citizenship, and the latter it is practically impossible to get a citizenship.
Cape Verde in Africa is the next in line that has a reasonable standard of living (it is the most developed country in the African continent), citizenship is achievable in 5 years of residency (quite a standard requirement), citizenship is granted by marriage without residency requirement, and dual citizenship is allowed.

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