Feedback and Questions on the SystemDocs

Yes, the network will know that the correct data, verified by the hash, has been stored, although it won’t know what the data is. This process is explained in the 5 steps listed.

During churn events, as nodes are turning off and on, data chunks, or information about nodes (for example) are passed to continually changing close groups. This is account transfer. I have updated the docs to make this clearer.

One user can create multiple accounts and therefore have multiple vaults

This point is just emphasising that unlike a centralised service, the SAFE Network does not require data access / integrity /security to be managed by a third party.

Yes, the rank is comprised by the network randomly checking that it can retrieve chunks stored on vaults and sets that against chunks that it could not retrieve. Lost chunks in this sense means a data chunk could not be retrieved during the POR process.

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Just as a reminder, we should think about replacing the word maidsafe in the SystemDocs. Should we replace it with SAFE Network or decide that on a individual basis?

I have to say that I’m still a bit sceptical about the name. First of all, the project became known as maidsafe. Second, the name SAFE network is not really a unique name. I’m not a big fan of these fancy sounding names or big marketing strategies (as Doug Stanhope famously said: A good product doesn’t need advertising. Or have you ever seen an advert for cocaine?) but I do think that establishing a good brand is not something that should be dismissed.

Just my random thoughts on this. :wink:

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I’ve removed all reference to MaidSafe in the context of the technology (i.e. MaidSafe client becomes the SAFE Network client) in the System Docs. Hopefully I have caught everything.

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4.1.9

And we do not appear in the first K

K = 1000?

MAID (MaidSafe Anonymous ID)
PMID (Proxy Maidsafe ID)
MPID (Maidsafe Public ID)
MSID (Maidsafe Share ID)

What’s the name for that? Just SAFE? Replace the M with an S?

or would-be hackers

can we please remove that? That doesn’t sound convincing nor professional and it doesn’t go into specifics, so I think it shouldn’t be there :smile:

If no record exists then each of the Data Managers of this group closes to the NAE being stored selects a connected node as a PmidNode to store on (if the message has a Data Holder hint then the closest of the data managers of this NAE attempts to store there).

I guess that should be closest, right?

  • What is a ManagerDb/AccountDb? It’s only mentioned twice in 4.1.9, nowhere else.

There is a mention of MaidNode and MaidManager, so we should probably look for maid instead of maidsafe.

PS: I just addded a sentence to the first page that states:

Please be aware that this book was translated by community members. It may contain translation errors. If you should see an error, please provide feedback to the community which you can reach here https://forum.autonomi.community/.

I hope that’s ok, and I think we should add that to all the translations.

That’s it for today. I should be finished with the translation sometime tomorrow, 4.1.9 is really a lot of text :stuck_out_tongue:

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Fantastic job and perfect timing @hillbicks !!!

4.1.9.

  • I’m not sure what is meant by cost? Is it the “amount of safecoin” that has to be paid in order to ‘PUT’ data onto the network?

Important data is faster when it’s important and slows downs otherwise, making good use of network resources.

  • I think we’ll have to see how that pans out in reality, but it looks to me now, we’re breaking net neutrality with that design. This is just as a reminder for myself, because that would be really bad in my opinion. Link to previous thread that talks about this Net neutrality - #18 by anon86652309

Close nodes can become temporary stores of data very easily, allowing many advantages to system designers.

  • such as?

One thing I’d like to mention again is the use of words like may and should. I’m not sure why you choose to use these in the SystemDocs because it seems kind of strange to me that there are scenarios where it is not clear what will happen. I’d think I’m not the only one who raises an eyebrow at phrases like that, because there is no further for those scenarios. The only explanation I have right now is that it’s assumed to behave that way, but further tests are need to ensure that behaviour, which is totally fine by me, but I think we should clarify that. Or am I missing something here?

PS: @happybeing: Why perfect timing? Do you know something we don’t? :open_mouth:

I have no privileged information, but my sense it’s that things are about to happen. Let it be a test of my intuition :wink:

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:smiley:…aahhmmm mmmfff…the new socially improved nicer me has just bitten my tongue to shreds…lol. Only joking…hope you’re intuition is right… :smiley:

Hehe, glad to see you not asleep on the job. :slight_smile:

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OK @dirvine, I’m back from hols now so it’s OK to start testnet 3 :wink:

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K in the sense of a DHT refers to the replication factor, so a value of 3 would mean that data is committed on 3 separate nodes.

I think we should leave this as is for now. The devs are so tied to this jargon that it is inherent throughout all communication explaining the system, changing this now is likely to cause confusion. A more gradual change would probably work better.

Agreed, changed to : …or manipulation of would-be adversaries

Yes, it should be closest, thanks.

Changed to key value store

Please refer to my earlier answer on use of jargon.

Nice :slight_smile:

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Yes :smile:

I have changed this to popular data

Once we have these assertions confirmed in tests and a running network then we will clear up the language here to be much more definitive.

I will possibly need @dirvine to confirm this point quickly and I will update the docs.

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Yeah, I already expected these names to stay that way, which is fine by me. I’ll adopt these changes into the translation.

Thanks for the explanation Nick!

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2.3

This passport contains cryptographically secure keys and/or a list of other keys to make use of the information to be stored or shared.

What list of other keys? Why is it used?

Finally the encrypted access permission are stored on the SAFE Network using the following structure:
**Store On Network [H(K+S)] Symmetric Encrypt [ PBKDF2[P][S] ] (Account)**

Why ‘are stored’, not ‘is stored’, permission is singular I suppose. Misspelt?
And does the permission in this scope mean ‘document’ like paper permission so as it can be stored?

BTW, does this structure need to be translated? I guess no.

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I have amended this phrase to: ‘This passport contains a variety of key types that enable different tasks to be performed across the network’. For your own interest the actual key types are listed here although this is probably going deeper than is the intention with the docs.

You are correct, it should read ‘is stored’. I have made the correction, nice spot.

It would be great if you could @dmitry_n. Another person we owe a giant beer too! (it’s going to be some bar tab)

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Oh, I meant translating only the name of the structure :smiley:
But if there is a document about that to be translated, I don’t mind, but firstly I will finish SystemDocs translation.

BTW, I’ve noticed that usually it’s written on the SAFE Network, but sometimes I met in the SAFE Network. Are these ways both correct?

And one more question: should I report to you about every misspelt found? I can gather them all so as to write only one big message in the end.

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So far I have translated 1 to 2.2.8 into Swedish. I am doing this so I can learn about the technology and contribute to the community. I have basicly made a literal translation of the documents.

Sometimes I would like to phrase it in another way, or would like to add or remove some information, but since I am not a computer scientist, nor have any detailed insight into the project, I want to stay close to the original text. The original text is sometimes a bit unclear though. I actually think the English version should get some retouches. There are some redundant information, missing information, or could be explained in a clearar way.

I have several questions, see below. Sorry for any confusion due to my English or technical comprehension.

1.3

No passwords or log in details are cached by the SAFE client or stored on the network. This means that no details about you or your access security is left on the PC you have used to access the SAFE Network.

Does this mean that the password or login details are never stored in any form, or does it only mean that they are never stored as plain text? I asume that some kind of information about the user must be stored on the network, though encrypted and obfuscated, otherwise it shouldn´t be possible to log in.

2.1

The data map, with hashes before and after encryption, is used when retrieving and decoding the user’s data, as the encryption process is non reversible.

Is the data map hashed before and after it is encrypted?

2.2

A peer to peer (p2p) network that is very accurate and can guarantee Vault proximity to any address

I don´t understand this sentence. Is it meant to mean that each vault (node) must know its proximity (the nearest nodes), and uses a DHT to do this? Or that it has access to every adress?

2.2.2

The Vault identification process involves creating two key pairs. One key pair is a revocation key and is used only to create and invalidate a real key.
The real key pair is created and the public key is signed by the revocation private key and this packet (public key plus signature) is stored on the network as a Vault Identification key type. This Hash is then used as the Vault identity.

Just to clarify. The two key pairs are the revocation key pair and the real key pair. Right? And the hash is stored as a Vault Identification key?

2.2.4

Many home connections are made using routers which supply private addresses that cannot appear on the Internet. A commonly used mechanism is to make use of STUN servers.

Is the STUN-server used in routers that supply addresses that cannot appear on the Internet, or are they used as a mechanism to overcome this limitation for the routers in home connections?

2.2.5

This mechanism is triggered on Get requests and during account transfers. It is non-deterministic and randomised by use by users. It is considered to be secure and uses zero knowledge, not to conceal content (as anyone can ask for any data), but to ensure any data which is contaminated is not required to be transferred.

What does this mean? This paragraph is rather unclear to me.

2.2.6

Vaults are rewarded for supplying resources by being awarded safecoins at a rate proportional to the Vault’s rank. As a result users are not locked to a particular Vault.

I don´t understand how the former statement about Vaults being awarded safecoins implies the latter statement that users therefore are not locked to a particular vault.

Users do not require to have their account managed, even in a secured manner.

What does this mean?

Rank is an internal measure of the Vault’s stored versus lost data. This is used to manage network authority in addition to the authority a Vault has in relation to its closeness to an address.

Not sure I understand this. What does authority mean in this context?

2.2.7

In this paragraph I would like to add that data is stored in different nodes and when a node is removed (eg a computer turned off) its data is copied to another node instead. This would explain why the network has redundance and is secure against attacks to single points of data.

A Vault’s distance from an address is a measure of that Vaults authority to make decisions on that address in a particular circumstance.

I don´t understand why this sentence is here. It doesn´t explain anything in this context.

Password details are all client side. So all a users files are contained within their data atlas, part of the user credentials will deliver the data atlas back to the users computer/device and they will need the correct password to gain access to their files.

The data chunks are hashed before and after encryption. The data map is then run through the self encryption process, as per any other piece of data, so is also hashed before and after encryption.

Correct on both :slight_smile:

They are used to overcome the limitations of not having an IP address

Proof of resource (POR) is triggered as data is retrieved from vaults (Gets) as opposed to when it is initially stored (Puts). During POR the network is able to validate that data is being stored correctly without needing knowledge of what the data is (zero knowledge proof).

I agree, this sentence does not flow correctly, I have removed the second part of the sentence.

No third party (company/organisation) is required to facilitate any user actions, everything is handled between the user and the network.

In this context, authority could be thought of as it’s ability to affect change

This would be a worthwhile addition, do you want to have a go at phrasing the addition, or would you like me to add it in?

I think the end of the sentence is not hugely revealing, suggest we remove the second half so that it reads: ‘A Vault’s distance from an address is a measure of that Vaults authority to make decisions on that address’.

Yes I was also just meaning the structure name, I was just generally saying that we owe you a very large drink for all your efforts!

It should probably be ‘on the SAFE Network’.

Yes please consolidate the changes and I’ll get them taken care of, thanks again!

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2.5

 Almost all early safecoin holders will be farmers with this supply of resource creating both liquidity and distribution of wealth.

What ‘this supply’? And what is meant at all here?

The ratio of safecoin being saved (left in new wallets) versus the ratio being issued to Farmers will produce a price point. This point will be the market value of safecoin

What are new wallets?

Within the SAFE Network, transfer of data, safecoin included, is atomic, using a cryptographic signature to transfer ownership.

Em… Atomic? :smiley:
I don’t get it :smiley: