If you’re not 100% they handle things properly then the extra coins don’t matter - SAFE could be generated stealthily with or without the extra MAIDs.
That is not entirely true: on day-0 the full list of all pre-minted safecoins according to the crowdsale outlines can be made public. And the network can be queried for the non-existance of any of the coins that “should not be pre-minted”. Even not that many details on this list are needed. Safecoins have a u32 identifier, so it suffices to premine from 0 - N and N is easily calculated (20% * 2^32).
After the network goes live, it should obviously be impossible for anyone, including MaidSafe to generate new coins at will.
From this perspective though, it would be a problem if those excess MaidSafecoins would get into circulation, because that N is fixed: there would not be enough room for all MaidSafeCoins to be turned 1:1 into Safecoin.
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20%?
Is not 15%? (10% of the crowdsale and 5% of investors).
I hope I didn’t say anything stupid there. I would have to re-read the crowdsale document. I think / thought / might be completely mistaken 10% crowdsale + 5% original investors + 5% foundation?
Can anyone confirm?
I was actually wrong ! 
It is 30% that is pre-mined on day-1
10% original crowdsale
15% for development and ecosystem - 5% reserved for the core development team, handled through the foundation
5% for the original investors
DISCLAIMER: despite the “MaidSafe” label on my account I am NOT the person to give you the official statement; I merely just looked up the original document, and briefly scanned it to get to a correction of my above statement.
Please do NOT take this as any valid or binding statement !
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But 15% (5% core developers + 10% Apps developers) of safecoin will be created in farm attemp. Only the 10% of the crowdsale and 5% of investors is outside farming reward.
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I agree, but there are some contradictory statements in this regards that will need to be cleared up; but I am not the person to do so.
David said maidsafe doesn’t have extra coins
What are these all about ?
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While I feel honoured that my word is seen as trustworthy, I do not personally feel it is sufficient; in particular in the cryptocurrency world and SAFE where the exact mantra is “no need to trust a third party”. I also don’t know where these excess MaidSafeCoins are on the blockchain, so I can’t even give you any words of comfort. I only know they exist, and they shouldn’t. That is the crux of this thread.
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Ben,
You have been great to speak up here, but I think we need a definitive statement on these extra coins from David or Nick. Are there 23 million extra coins? If so who has control of these coins?
Thanks @Melvin. Yes this was discussed in another recent thread and to clarify things beyond doubt. The extra coins were generated by the Masterprotocol which, somewhat surprisingly, was not able to stop issuing coins as the agreed 10% limit had been reached. This is why the coins were recorded on the blockchain and we only became aware of this issue during the crowd sale. The 23 million coins are currently held by the MaidSafe Foundation.
To be clear about the coin issuance:
10% crowd sale
5% existing investors
5% core development
10% app devs
70% farmers
I hope this helps clear things up.
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Great, thanks Nick! Thanks for the quick response!
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I had missed this thread slightly by not responding there, wanted to get in the clear; so does this mean those coins won’t enter circulation, and so coinmarketcap should adjust, and ‘the record’ could state that even though it appears there is a misprint of extra coin; they are also irrelevant to the market because those maidsafecoins wouldn’t show up in any trades?
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We have discussed a few different options a while back, these ranged from burning them to using them for promotions to help seed the network. All our attention is currently consumed by installers, UTP support, routing and crust bugs and generally allowing users to connect to the network so we haven’t given it any further thought since.
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I wondered about this. We should certainly consider it and check out community feeling at the appropriate time. It wouldn’t need to be all of them, and even small rewards for joining can make quite a difference to reducing friction.
I like the idea of extra funds going to individuals/groups that produce tutorials (written and video) like @dyamanaka has produced, Safe Pod projects @dallyshalla @whiteoutmashups; Forum moderators like @happybeing @polpolrene @neo (sorry missing a few); SafeCoin Magazine @optictopic; wiki/websites like @frabrunelle; @fergish SAFE network radio/podcast tour around North America, @we_advance @Southside European Tour, @PeterRobertson Australia Tour, @stupidcache South America Tour, @nhial Africa Tour. To name a few that have already contributed a lot of their time and talents toward the community. Donation route thus far is pretty sad IMHO.
The project budget proposals could be submitted like RFC’s and approved by the community. We could go even further and create Decentralized Autonomous Community on Bitshares (Brings further interest from BTC community) that publicly approve proposals with voting community (MAID) stake holders and all distributions are openly documented. MaidSafe could take the 25 million (or whatever amount it is) and burn them when creating the Bitshares MAID-promotion Asset that is pegged to the USD or gold or something. Wait until the MAID/SafeCoin is valued at a specific price like $0.50…so then we have 12.5 million to invest back into our community.
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I’ve never seen newly printed money that people couldn’t find a use for!
Why couldn’t MAID owners broadcast from their addresses whether they want the extra coins burned?
That should be the first choice, and not just that, but the first choice the Foundation should be advocating (it’s strange enough that these coins are still in existence (edit: was “circulation” - corrected)!).
The second choice should be that the coins be distributed to MAID owners during the conversion to SAFE.
There is no reason to invent shovel-ready jobs. Isn’t there already a fund for such uses?
I’m not making these suggestions in a strong way - I own a very small amount of MAID - it’s just how I see the issue from what I would imagine to be a good governance perspective.
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I don’t need no money…
Save it for the devs
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I will be perfectly upfront about my agenda here. While David and Nick recently reconfirmed to be good custodians of those coins, very soon I will start a SAFE pod in Berlin. I can not ask of people to commit their time and energy if there are still uncertainties about these coins. What I need to be able to state is “look there they are on those wallet addresses, and here is a cryptographic signature of MaidSafe that they are in their possession.” On why they aren’t burnt yet, we can argue, but providing the proof that they are not in circulation can simply put this whole question to rest.
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