ERC-20 Transition

hmhmmm - can be just imagination … but to be honest … some weeks ago when the price was going up a little bit more intense then now it felt like there were more people active in the telegram channel and i had the feeling i could just leave and nobody would notice it too much … right now it died down again a little bit and i think it’s not a bad thing i’m there …

…so i think price has a more important impact on the ‘atmosphere’ in the community than one would like it to have … and it certainly helps to spread the word and attrackt developers too …

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And if you are right about this, MaidSafe’s reserves have risen substantially in recent months. So what’s the ‘big deal’?

Could MAID moved to ERC20? I don’t know enough. Does anybody know?

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I haven’t done a proper research, but it doesn’t seem that complicated to me.
Issuing an ERC20 is from what I can see not a big deal. There is need for a trusted management that receives the maid at burn address. A msg with a valid eth adress is needed, and it could perhaps be signed with sender private key so that it is verifiable. Then trusted management issues corresponding ERC20 amount through the crowdsale contract, to this address. All of this could be coded.
It could be running until Safecoin is launched, and so MaidSafeCoin and ERC20SAFE would coexist.

Didn’t check this up properly though, so I am probably missing something

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I think this is completely wrong way to look at it.
The team and the community wouldn’t go out on a limb for something it doesn’t want. And if it’s something we want, there is nothing to laugh about? Anyone laughing obviously is completely irrelevant then? Why care about them, totally wrong way to lead life or anything.

Just looking at complementing with an ERC20:
The tokens are more than just playground for quick buck diggers, they are an entry to the project, to the world of this project. People get to know about SAFENetwork through the token. That is the valuable part. Me personally, I don’t trade so I have no use for ERC20. But I see how the increased accessibility that it provides, is beneficial for the community and the project. That is what is important.

So, IMO, if the thesis holds, that increased availability leads to growing community, and that a growing community is good for the project, in combination with no significant downsides or insurmountable hurdles related to the ERC20 issuance … then it’s a no-brainer… No?

Because this project won’t be done this or next year, and that is a very long time where we can have this project become more available. The network needs many nodes at start to be secure, and that is one big reason. Another is that it needs more developers to make the apps for it. Sure we can say that we don’t need it, because everyone will be there at day 1 when we launch (since project is so awesome :slight_smile: ). But it would seem to me that risks are managed better if not relying on such assumptions.

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Developers to make apps (programs) for it. Not developers of the core network. This distinction is important, and maybe something I’ve misunderstood in previous posts just calling for more developers. I agree that there is a need for more people making programs that can run on the SAFE platform. But I don’t think the team making the core SAFE infrastructure necessarily needs to be flooded with more developers. Thanks for clarifying, at least for me.

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I warned against taking heed from people who put you down.

As long as the team and the community actually does something it wants, OKAY. But I sense there sometimes is a difference between doing something you want and doing something the people around pressure / manipulate you to do / force you to subdue to. By undermining your confidence, igniting the fear of failure, ridiculing the status quo, by encouraging your lower instincts. Like greed :sunglasses:

I especially dislike when people manipulate you through abuse of higher principles they themselves care too little about.

As for the rest, I’m by no means against going the route of ERC20 per se. I just oppose some of the arguments that don’t sit well with me. Like buying MAID being too complicated. If you’re a developer, but getting MAID is too complicated it discourages you from getting in and developing, what the hell were you gonna develop anyway? Someone else’s headache?

Only a couple of days ago, I helped one guy who participated in the ICO retrieve his MAID through the OMNI wallet (because it was too confusing). He had originally gotten into MAID because of the tech (never mind the OMNI) and he decided to sell it because it wasn’t making any money anymore (compared with many of the other coins available).

The OMNI-based MAID did not keep him from getting in, but for a while at least, it may have kept him from getting out :smiley:

I’m not saying that’s the UE we want people to enjoy, but I think that the automatic presumption that turning into ERC20 will automatically attract more people and make them stay is sort of naive. I mean… This guy overcame all the obstacles to get and sell his MAID because he wanted to invest in something that would bring him profit – fast. The ERC20 MAID was not gonna stop him. It was gonna make it faster – unless the ERC20 MAID provided the opportunity to wring out more.

And of course, he told me to ‘never marry a coin’. I forgot to tell him that if you ever marry a coin, you’d better make sure it’s MAID.

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You’re overly simplifying.
Attracting developers is not about simply letting them buy the tokens easily.

Developers would of course be more likely to hear about SAFENetwork if more people talk about it. They do this if more people are aware, and it will de facto be a hurdle if it is complicated, not for all, but for more than necessary.

Additionally developers who do not simply toy with it for hobby, are of course also interested in a bigger community and network, as to feel more secure that the time is well spent.
We can say that if they are not motivated enough by ideological reasons then we can be without them. But that is not a very successful approach I think. Strive for inclusiveness, availability.

About seeing the complicatedness as a good thing because it is locking people in - again I would say this is the completely wrong way to see it.
Make it easy to join and leave seems like a much saner approach IMO.

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The “the more people talk about it (in a good way) the better” part is pretty commonsense.

But what makes buying an ERC20 token significantly easier than buying the OMNI MAID? And how does it guarantee people will talk about MAID more than they do now? If anything, running into hurdles may actually incite people to talk about MAID, giving and taking advice.

How does the transition to an ERC20 token make people talk or care about MAID any more than they do already?

Some people assume it would, I ask, based on what?

Hint: The “fence-them-in” part was a joke.

EDIT: The main difference I see is that the ERC20 tokens are easier and cheaper to move around and sell / trade. Nothing wrong with that, I would like that too. But you talk about buying / getting into. And if we mean to attract people who have so far stayed away because of complications with moving MAID around and trading, why do we say it doesn’t have as much to do with trading, when it really has everything to do with trading? :wink:

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Or, perhaps for many, it’s about giving people the comfort to get their MAID off of exchanges and into a hardware wallet without having to pay a high fee. For the most part, Trezor support for OMNI would take care of the former. However, there’s still the matter of the high fees.

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Fair enough. Although I usually buy on Polo and 10 MAID fee never seemed that high to me. But this is more a matter of making life easier for us who are already in. I’m not sold on the idea this would make any but miniscule difference as far as attracting new MAIDheads. Maybe some undecided traders. Maybe.

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I would assume that if ERC20 makes it more accessible, then more people will get in contact with it, and more people will thus become aware of the project and all with it. That would result in more people talking about it (if people will also talk more, that I leave for someone else to guess :slight_smile: ).

That’s one sweet chain of IFs man :heart_eyes:

I would also be very interested in replacing MAID with an ERC20 token :slight_smile: Hope it can become true!

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Only one “if” actually :wink: the rest I thought was more or less uncontroversial. But, that’s just my view of it.

Projects are moving off Ethereum, to me it seems like getting on the ERC20 bandwagon now is a little late if it was not for having to move again fine but moving to Ethereum and then moving again to the SafeNetwork is mental in my opinion.
I understand the arguments but think it would be a catastrophe.

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Well, the major IF (that you probably take as solved) is whether the people who deliberately stay away actually stay away because they deem the OMNI MAID unaccessible. I suspect there may be a few, but I also feel Audity kinda cracked the nut alright and got to the gist.

It’s a total ass pull on my part, but I’d guess that true idealists represent approximately 1% of the population. Before it’s done, this thing is nothing but a concept. And in their own right, the down-to-earth folks are pretty reasonable whenever they humble us.

The truth is, the only people who can prove the doubters wrong are (hopefully :face_with_raised_eyebrow:) working their butts off to prove them wrong while we gibber.

In the grand scheme of things, the OMNI / ERC20 dilemma is just a small small aspect.

I could get behind that.
Dual Blockchain token, not forcing a change but having it available for those who want to migrate.

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…to me it seems like getting on the ERC20 bandwagon now is a little late…

A little late? It seems that SafeCoin is at least two or three years away. That is still plenty of time to make use of the new MAID. Should people want it.

maybe with erc20 we can use again shapeshift and changelly, i dont why they have always trouble with maidsafe

Or EtherDelta or Idex. Well, should banks and governments put a black cloud over all the centralized exchanges, switching to ERC20 would be a must.