ERC-20 Transition

My fear is those who bought into the crowd sale, put them in a paper wallet, then mostly forgot about them. They need to be able to access their coins without having to track down the forum, find out why they can’t access coins, etc.

If both can easily be supported and it isn’t a big job, I have no major objection. However, if it isn’t fully inclusive, it will be another pain point for the enduring maidsafecoin investor.

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Yeah, it would be very annoying to have to transfer the maidsafecoins from the crowdsale, but great for buying new coins, as dealing with omni tokens is a pain in the ass.

That should not be a problem. As it was explained above, it does not have to be a complete switch. Those who wish to switch can do so by sending their MaidSafeCoins to a burn address and receive an ERC-20 equivalent. Those who decide to stick to OMNI can still receive their SafeCoins later.
Some people will win, no one will lose. As long as SafeCoin does not go live in a near to medium future (very unlikely in my humble opinion) it’s a no brainer.

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I agree. It’s a no brainer assuming it’s easy to achieve.

If, however, it is difficult to achieve & ends up taking significant time & effort, then it becomes less of a no-brainer.

The discussion around multi-sig wallets shows one way of making it work, but it’d certainly take a good amount of time.

If anyone can highlight an easy way of doing it, the community members who want it to happen can work on it.

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I see above hints that there are better networks in the making than Ethereum for ERC20/23 tokens to exist on. Personally I think RootStock will shortly be a way to achieve such a “peg” without much ado in another 60 or so days. I don’t want the team focusing on anything except getting beta3 then 4 up as fast as humanly possible with some type of 2nd factor security prior to launch.

Seems like projects like Fluence.ai , Enigma, EOS, and other platforms that securely store data or allow its security directly as well as possible anonymity (not as well as MAID) will eat some of our lunch since this network is being cooked slowly.

It is frustrating to see projects like Substratum, Internxt?, Bluezelle, DADI, etc achieving such massive attention and funding (enough for extensive teams) while MAIDSafe does the tortoise (appearance) pace in this race. But I trust the team to finish and hopefully with a product that will pull these other projects into its orbit. Anyway, most of those projects will not see the light of day and fail catastrophically. Time will tell.

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I personally would LOVE to see MAID at 5cents or less again. The notional value of the coin means nothing to holders or the network, but I certainly could get more coins cheap vs now. Traders and Speculators need that attractiveness and cheap on and off, and maybe that adds to the potential adopter pool on launch, but unless the team needs to sell coins for cash/operations, market price doesn’t get us to the finish line, nor does how many exchanges it trades on IMO.

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I don’t know about the whole “can’t do” attitude that @foreverjoyful is talking about, but switching does seem like resource malpractice with minimal returns.

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Some want a way to get maidsafecoin to rise and others see maidsafecoin as the long term token and others see maidsafecoin activity as a way to encourage programmers to be developers for the network.

After reading this it seems that some want ERC-20 because of their view of what maidsafecoin means to them.

foreverjoyful seems to have sour grapes since he or she doesn’t mention @neo’s second post.

I am one of those from the Maidsafecoin ICO who only just happened to do my yearly checkin of the forum and found this. I would be concerned if I missed any transition to a ERC-20. Good to see that others have suggested that if it was done that both coins would exist side by side. Although from what I can see it might help traders recover sunk funds but no help for the project.

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OK, his first argument about ethereum with high transaction fees most likely won’t be a problem. I was discussing this with the host of all the ethereum meet ups in Sydney - The ethereum team is working on it daily and not only the whole community is in consensus regarding what they’ll do next but they have more than enough resources and funding needed to do that. Also they’re very fast and progressive, they’re a little better than the SAFEnetwork team in that regard, no offence. The competition for ethereum may be a concern tho. If ethereum can’t establish the same ground. But I think it has enough marketing power to do so just like all other altcoins trying to compete with bitcoin. But honestly no one knows what’s going to be the future. However all I know is ethereum does have a very strong team and marketing pull.

Other than that, rest of the points are fair. Although Bitcoin lighting network will reduce fees, it’ll only do so once Implemented. However, only less than 20% of bitcoin transactions are using segwit even tho that’s available ages ago. So idk how long it’ll take bitcoin to implement an efficient lighting network, may take over 1-2 years. By then the SAFEnetwork may be out already.

So really it’s do it now or most likely you’ll never(need to) do it. Because yes, bitcoin scalability is coming. So is smart contracts on bitcoin and so is the omni wallet team developing ways to enhance their website/protocol. If it’s going to cost too much development time and effort, then don’t. It really depends if you want to priorise marketing more or development of the product and technology, if you have limited resources I don’t want to comment on that decision, I’m more for technology personally.

I didn’t really think about the limited resource part at first, but as I later pointed out I do think the time wasted on this instead of going towards development is a legitimate concern.

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I agree with the “the more devs, the better” line of thought, but I fail to see how a transition to ERC-20 attracts significantly more devs. I mean, @Antifragile, you just noted MAID was in top ten during those two years.

Did developers swarm around MAID any more then than they do now?

I know some people who trade / mine, check the trading charts and coinmarketcap, and I know some developers; and I don’t think these two groups intersect all that much (or as much as many people seem to believe).

Good developers are usually well in financially, and most of those I know spend their spare time doing anything but programming. If they even do some programming in their spare time, they usually explore new languages. I know one who just fell for Kotlin, I know the other who has gone retro-nuts for stuff like Pascal, but I know literally zero good and established developers who are into Crypto, although I know many Crypto enthusiasts who are more or less familiar with coding.

In my opinion, the good developers will get attracted by being told by other good developers. By being told there is this opportunity to actually do and try something new and fresh. Turning ERC-20 may be a good idea for many reasons, but building a balmy promised land upon it is destined to fail.

Btw the MAID team are developers, and they’re not stupid. If they had any trustworthy signals that being the OMNI token is a relevant hindrance in attracting some good minds, I think they would have gone the ERC route a long time ago.

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I see a lot of posts saying that the coin price should be higher, great for attracting people, devs, etc. I think most people get that and would approve. However, I am not convinced that ERC20 will do all this. I am not entirely convinced getting it on more exchanges will either. There are other coins on binance out of top 100 for example.

That isn’t to say I think it definitely won’t help, but I think what we really need is more test and alpha nets demonstrating progress on data chains. I don’t say this as criticism of the team or the rate of progress, but rather that there is no substitute for this.

I sense that some are convinced otherwise. Maybe they are right. I don’t think the lack of support for the change should be used as a hammer to hit those who don’t agree though. They may just think it won’t make a huge difference, will take time away from progress, and could be confusing. If we can get ERC20 without any problems, it seems worth a go though.

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Devs are absolutely attracted to a platform which is becoming viable to develop on. Why would a developer be more interested in the price or hype than an actual working prototype to get their teeth into?

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Definitely. If there’s low confidence that the platform will go live in the near future, devs (other than enthusiasts, who are very important) would think they’re wasting their time.

Once the network is shown to work well in the wild through a successful Alpha 3 and 4, app devs will see its getting more likely and interest will increase.

Investors will also buy in as technical risk decreases, increasing the chances of a good return in the medium term.

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Outlandish suggestion that may be impossible: build a low-capacity, crypto-currency only close group consensus network to host MAID like tokens, plus a native Safecoin like crypto currency for incentivisation (as farming won’t generate revenue other than transaction fees).

We had working test networks in the past - the requirements for a network where each node only ever deals with a few megabytes rather than gigabytes could far more easily achieve robustness (e.g. many copies of each data piece, churn would be easy etc), and it’d show the potential of close group consensus ahead of it being ready to host the new internet.

This would absolutely take devs time, but if possible, it would prove the potential of the SAFE network ahead of it being ready, and would be the best performing and most scalable crypto currency in existence.

Could it be possible to relatively quickly make a robust crypto-currency only close group consensus network based on modified Safe network code that’s robust only for very small amounts of 2 specific data types to enable a native crypto currency (NOT Safecoin) plus a token that represents MAID placeholder tokens?

and specifically do what at the moment?

Sorry that’s not meant to sound rude but most Senior Execs wouldn’t put real money or resources anywhere near this platform until beta at least. A $5 MAID in the next 12-24 months isn’t going to change that.

Your points aren’t invalid, in some ways quite the contrary, possibly all this discussion is just still a little too early…bleepin frustrating I get that, just the life of a SAFE supporter for now :slight_smile:

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The thing is we have no real verifiable way of measuring whether these things are happening in the background already or not and we won’t until the network is live. A giant partnership with anyone at the moment is zero guarantee of having the ‘first’ of anything. Tbh, and this is just my opinion, having worked for the Big M and others for a large part of my former working life it is wise to keep these organisations and the associated issues they bring, well away until the network is secure.

A live network will most likely be wildy successful through the storage and farming aspect alone. I’m a crusty old demon who has no interest in money anymore, but I’m not blind, once that happens traders/whales (the ones who have been in crypto since the early years and know this project) will pump this thing higher than most think possible.

Apps and additional platforms that will use the network and in turn attract the masses and hopefully push SAFE into the public eye isn’t an effect we’ll likely feel or see for some years post release. These things are important for the long term health of the network but not crucial to have on release. Hence I’m more than happy to acknowledge you and others have a reasonable point re more visibility but there is an equally weighted argument that your POV is just too early and should be looked at after the next couple of Alphas.

All the above previous posts seem to divide people one way or the other which is the sign of an interesting and important topic!

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absolutely pointless IMHO. MAID is a token, who cares, network is not live yet, Safecoin doesnt exist… your wasting your time IMHO. And what does OMNI being a pain or high trans fees even bother you unless your using it daily?

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As a dev myself and someone who has been part of this community since before and after it was a top 10 coin, I understand your frustration. However, companies are even less likely to invest money in an unproven technology than individuals investing spare time.

I have seen many coins come and go from the top 10 including Steam, Nxt and Peercoin. All 3 of these have working products and are way down the list now - Nxt is floating near Maidsafecoin, Peercoin is out of top 100 and even Steam is struggling to remain top 50 at times.

So, forgive me for not being convinced by your arguments. It may help to have a better token and be on more exchanges, but it may make little difference. People will still think it is unproven vapourware with a troubled ICO until they are proved wrong.

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New users or new devs? The difference in pitch is important.

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It’s not pointless, why would it be?
ERC-20 tokens offer objective, real life advantages some of which have been repeatedly mentioned above, and as far as I can tell, not a single disadvantage.
The question is not which is the better choice, it’s whether a token can be issued in such way that is worth doing - quickly, effortlessly and cheaply.

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