Generally, a transition to ERC20 should not require any significant slow down in MaidSafe’s progress, especially if some external contractors / community members are used to manage the fairly straightforward process. It wouldn’t need any Safe specific skills to distract the devs from work on the network, but it would take some resource, so the benefits would need to outweigh the costs.
The only reason I think it could potentially be worth slowing down the development to some degree is if an MVP crypto-currency-only close group consensus network could be made to work far more quickly than the full Safe network. The benefits of such a network (i.e. best performing crypto-currency system that is not even blockchain based) could outweigh the costs if it were fairly straightforward to make and provided significantly more resources for development… so by no means a dead certain overall benefit even if possible.
Not a bad sounding idea. It’s not that I’m completely against a transition by any means but i’m just more accepting of the direction Maidsafe want to take, that being whatever their judgment deems best.
In this case they have been reasonably forthcoming about their direction in the short/medium term and that doesn’t appear to include any transition or re-brand.
There’s a lot of regulatory speed bumps ahead over the next couple of years and just quietly letting things play out on an external front whilst construction moves towards completion is pretty prudent on the companies behalf.
Oh, btw, for a very sharp presentation of a ROADMAP please go to the COSMOS website!! Ongoing, visual update in percentage terms of how each aspect of the project is proceeding!!
As a dev I like the philosophy behind not getting into something like estimates because they tend to say nothing. Especially for something which was not build before. Even with the Cosmos Roadmap. It’s nice that they have percentage values for the things to be done. But everybody knows that for the missing 10% of functionality at least 90% percent of the time may have to be scheduled. So it says nothing.
But then on the other hand there is a gut feeling about progress. I completely miss that for now. How long will it take before we have Safecoin on the network? Something like years or months?
From my understanding its not months, it’s years. Sadly, like someone else said in this forum, this has turned out to be a long shot, a hail mary investment. Really hopeful it succeeds, but if there is no exposure, no traded volume even if it succeeds, it may end up as a closet idea were other than a few BBS nerds nobody cares or uses it…
I am not going to say that ERC20 is a scam nor would I ever admit that all of the incubator’s developers have abandoned Ethereum altogether. I would also never call anyone a scamming troll or a heartless “trader” who might be overly concerned with ERC or shifting off Omni rather than focusing on SAFE Network development. What I will say is that these topics probably deserve their own thread to make space for stricter discussions on price and trading here.
Well, one could say that if MAID disappears from exchanges, there won’t be much price & trading to speak of full stop. Hopefully, at worst the war on MAID remains confined to US exchanges.
Regardless, chanced upon this meme, and I think it couldn’t be more relevant:
I think you have some valid points, points I also can see be of value.
Hardware storage and different wallet solutions other than Omni.
Popular standard that many can relate to and is very popular among recent interesting projects.
From a personal point of view I can’t see a change to ERC20 right now, as long Maid is listed on Poloniex, as long as decentralised exchanges has not grown significantly in volym.
But i would suggest to create an proposal that finds solutions, backed by facts, to solve neccesary problem, I think that if a proposal that is complete and valid could open up for a change to ERC-20.
Some problems that I can see that needs solving is: Who can implement and will do the work for a change to ERC20. How to solv MAID listing on current exchanges (opportunity vs risk), How to solv for total supply if there is omni and ERC-20 together, Any possible legal implications from what was proposed during ICO.
My point is, that I belive there will have to be a much deeper discussion about solutions and implementation before an change can be possible.
I don’t think it can work like, - let’s do it! pop some pills and let the party starting.
Good start, maybe this can become a full proposal in the future. In the nearest future I think that we will have to wait and see how hard the SEC hammer will hit against ERC20 and how it will effect the OMI token and Poloniex. The chances for the SEC hammer to hit ERC20 assets I predict are very high. But if the situation in the crypto markets changes drasticaly I can see the possibility for a switch in the future.
For me to support a switch it probably will have to include, Poloniex has to delist, decentralised exchanges signifcaly grow in trading volym and a full detailed proposal to be in place.
I am a little concerned that ERC-20 is going to come under fire when the SEC starts ruling against some of the ICOs as these where mostly issued on ERC-20.
Its possible that in a year’s time ERC-20 will be the least favored as most of the tokens on it come under fire, rightly or wrongly, from the SEC.
Doesn’t change the fact that in a year’s time Omni will still be the least favored and the Safecoin placeholder token would have NEVER been released on Omni if just one of the other alternatives had been around at the time. There are reasons why most coins avoid release on Omni like the plague.
So besides an eventual maidsafe transition, what about Project Decorum ? It’s currently only listed on bittrex, and if my gut feeling is right it will soon be delisted as well.
I’m considering such a transition, I agree its just a matter of time until Bittrex will also delist PDC. We could really use a decentralised exchange and ERC20 would enable that. The eventual swap to SAFE would be honored for both protocols so no one would be left behind.
We’d need a website that would ask the user for three things:
Current BTC address holding their OMNI-PDC
Target ETH address for the ERC20-PDC
A signature that has signed the above ETH address using the BTC address.
After those three check out it would show the burn address for the OMNI-PDC. The signature can be generated with either omniwallet or omnicore, instructions would be provided.
This would cost quite some time though, as I wouldn’t want to fully automate the distribution of the ERC-20 tokens for security reasons. And no matter how good you explain, this process is complicated enough for some people to muck up, who’d then need support. So I’m not 100% sure yet.
Hi all, I thought it was time to re-address this topic.
Paging @nicklambert in particular.
Poloniex has just delisted a slew of tokens from their platform for US citizens, including Omni. MAID luckily escaped the cull.
In the past people have advocated migrating the MAID Omni token to some other platform such as Ethereum to make access to more modern token infrastructure and exchanges (or “DEXs” to be precise). In the past I agreed with MaidSafe that this wasn’t necessary and would be a distraction and waste of time for the SAFENet development team. Now more than ever this team need to avoid distractions however in light of Poloniex being the only liquid market for MAID and this recent news I feel the sword of Damocles hanging over the market price of MAID. If MAID was to suffer such a set back I get the impression that would seriously jeopardise the funding for the team.
Nick and the team, I think it’s time to reconsider migrating MAID (Omni) to a new platform in order to mitigate any liquidity shocks from Poloniex’s management team (i.e. Circle => Goldman Sachs => SEC/CFTC). Here are some options to think about:
1/ Ethereum (ERC-20)
Tried, tested, straight forward.
Lots of infrastructure and semi-DEX platforms
Ethereum itself does not necessarily have a stable future (Scaling and centralisation issues)
2/ Blockstream Liquid
Similar to Omni
Easier than Omni
Might be a nice way to raise MAID profile within the bitcoin cool gang again
might lead to proper exchange adoption as many high profile exchanges are members, paying high fees to participate so want to see the best RoI they can.
Centralised platform could lead to freeze of tokens just like Polo’ can do now (effectively)
3/ Waves & Stellar
Obscure
include a DEX (a bit like Omni did in theory)
Worth comparing with 1 and 2
Would be interested to hear any other suggestions from the group.
Thanks for the message Oscar, that is certainly one approach. Another is to maintain our current token and continue to seek exchange listings in jurisdictions out side the US. We did look quite extensively at other platforms last year and researched and spoke to projects that had managed token transitions. Transitions are a highly time consuming process and one that would have a negative impact on our focus on our roadmap delivery. One project we spoke to during our research commented that if they had the choice of whether to transition or not they wouldn’t do it (they moved to ERC20).
The option with the least friction (if the focus is entirely on liquidity) would be listing Omni on new exchanges which we obviously did recently with Bitker and could do with others. Most of these require fees to be paid but these have reduced over time as more and more exchanges have cropped up, however, there are often other strings attached such as needing to guarantee liquidity. And these are of course centralised and contain all the pitfalls that go with that, but if the focus is on enabling trade then they do represent a reasonable option provided you do due diligence on the exchange.
