ElonMuskovites and MaidSafe


#62

You could also say that the name choice is a form of respect/acknowledgement towards Tesla.

Musk is also businessman, so as far as comparisons go: maybe more a Thomas Edison then a Nikola Tesla. Btw, these 2 had a feud, as you probably know better than me.

What I also find interesting is that Trump’s uncle (‘great professor!’) has reviewed and analysed Tesla’s papers after Tesla died, for the US government. This to see if there was interesting, still unknown stuff in it.


#64

I know, I know. And the theory being a possibility he was not as forthcoming as he could have been with the government. Leading me to all kinds of fantastical hope that realDynamic Theory of Gravity education is indeed going to be taught in schools rather than the marketing materials of false theories. Fake theories. No pressure on Trump :wink:

Just so you can recognize misinfo and disinfo because now that realNT is coming out, we are rife with a lot of b.s. The Maxwell’s Equations connections has to do with a story that ether is solid. Now if the nugget that it is gas, never solid, was in what Uncle Trump found. There’s something right there.


#65

Thank you @piluso. :wink:


#69

I personally wouldn’t have a problem with it. If a Govt recognises a benefit to the population, ie privacy, security and freedom, then I say Bravo Govt.
On what grounds would you personally object?[quote=“jm5, post:54, topic:13320”]
Ha, what a joke, afaik his businesses don’t actually make any money, imagine that.
[/quote]

Neither did Amazon for a very long time - what is your point here?[quote=“jm5, post:54, topic:13320”]
So, whomever loses everything wasn’t doing their thing for profits? Ridiculous assumption.
[/quote]
well, you’re right, it doesn’t necessarily follow, but by the same measure:

Can you tell us what reading you have based this conclusion on - or is it an assumption?[quote=“jm5, post:29, topic:13320”]
If someone does something for the greater good which in turn benefits himself does that make his something really for the greater good?
[/quote]

I’m tempted to say Yes, but your wording is unclear. Do you mean does it demonstrate his motives are for the greater good, in which case No - but neither does it show they weren’t. Surely if something is shown to be for the greater good (when done) then it doesn’t matter if someone profits - does it?.

Could you point me to the potentially mind changing research you have done? - thanks

I don’t think he claimed to be “sure” did he? I thought it was just his opinion. Can you explain what you base your own doubts on?

By acknowledging you have no actual information to go on (“no expert” ) and without stating what these questions are, are you not just casting aspersions?
I have to say that there seems to be a lot of the “Pot calling the kettle black here”. You seem to say others are just giving opinion, rather than fact, yet seem to do the same. You say others are making assumptions, yet seem to do the same.
You also rightly question the assumption made of someone else’s motivations, yet suggest you have reason to think otherwise - without providing these reasons - an assumption isn’t it?
Nobody can know for sure what anybody else’s motivation is, without being a mind reader that is. Assumptions should be avoided I think, in preference to making inferences from actual data/research.
There also isn’t really anything wrong with people just stating their opinion, as long as it isn’t claimed as fact.
Just my 2 penn’orth…: :smile: .


#70

jm5:

From what I have read and understood Musk is doing not much but lining his pockets.

By California Law, Elon Musk has to be paid a salary. He agreed that would be the minimum wage, but refuses to take it. He also participates in every one of Tesla’s capital raises (both debt and equity) and is the largest individual shareholder in the company. I know of no other CEO who has so much skin in the game, most of the others are happy to take multi million dollar salaries and cash in on their stock options asap.

In sum, his motivation is about as far from “lining his pockets” as it’s possible to get.


#71

So, I think we have some actual circumstantial evidence here to suggest that he at least has some faith in his own vision and is not cashing in early. If the project succeeds, then he becomes wealthy - what he does with that wealth would still be conjecture though.

Motivation still can’t be ascertained for certain one way or the other though, (I’d maintain it just isn’t possible) but nor does it matter I don’t think.
I think we can (perhaps) infer from his actions that he at least has faith that his project will succeed and I personally believe it will be “a benefit to humanity”.( if self driving cars are shown to be safer, batteries less polluting etc).
If he produces something that benefits humanity, then it is all good and motivation doesn’t matter.
The one thing we can say is that there has definitely not been any evidence or reasoning given so far to suggest any greed motivation. :smile:


#72

Based on history, I have a hard time imagining that anywhere in the near future.

And Amazon is such a “great” company such as Tesla, and SpaceX? Educate me, did Amazon pull through with taxpayers money?

No one in this conversation has provided sources for their statements. Although there are some "factual statements"that if you disagree with or question you are belittled.[quote=“Al_Kafir, post:69, topic:13320”]
I don’t think he claimed to be “sure” did he? I thought it was just his opinion. Can you explain what you base your own doubts on?
[/quote]

I never stated that he claimed to be “sure”.

Casting aspersions means to question someones abilities or doubt them. I don’t really understand your question

I never said “others” are just giving opinion. I commented on one post that imo was presenting itself as fact when it was opinion. As we have seen, questioning those “facts” comes with consequences. It was stated that the comment was an analysis, which I don’t see myself. If you look through the thread there are those that state “imo”. The comment we are talking about was a rant and rave towards anyone that disagreed.

The particular comment is being presented as fact and disagreeing with the presentation will get you belittled. This conversation has gone on too long for me. There are comments that have been deleted because they didnt follow the guidelines (not sure what deletion achieves, started a thread about that in meta), the whole picture is now blurry.

I appreciate your 2c and I am by no means perfect. But, I don’t belittle others who disagree with me, and even stuff I am really educated on I allow others to question me.


#73

OK, I’m sorry if that was the case, looks like I might have missed some essential elements of this conversation. I’m sorry if things got out of hand or upsetting for you,I know what that can be like .
I just spent 30m mins replying to your post ( it was absolutely brilliant of course :smile:) then read your last bit and thought maybe not the time, so deleted it.
I just enjoy debate,.

Thanks for that and none of us are…some of us are just that bit closer to it… :smile: lol…only joking [quote=“jm5, post:72, topic:13320”]
I don’t belittle others who disagree with me, and even stuff I am really educated on I allow others to question me.
[/quote]

That’s brill and I hope you continue to do so. :smile:


#74

That sounds somehow worse because it could be a very dark DARPA project paying from the Shadow Government. Okay, that is possible. But the man who would know is a Commerce specialist and investor analyst, David Stockman who knows his way around all the alleys, highways and byways. I will see what I can find relative to this intel. David says terrible things about it being the most larcenous corporation in America at the moment. So he’s biased. But he knows all the charts and graphs. Data points profits and losses hidden and in plain sight. Of course Amazon is pretty awful too. Now its strictly from the investor perspective. He is old school. When the economy was coupled with investing. Since the stealth decoupling and all the massive wealth transfer as they say in polite company, he is trying to make sense of it based on Free Market in a real way. Not the algorithmic new kids way. fakeEconomy way.


#75

Ohno. Didn’t look far to find these other companies that he profits from. http://taddlr.com/celebrity/elon-musk/
In reference to the intellectual vigor in the MaidSafeForum. The poster can see it is no reddit nor voat but it does not have to be, shouldn’t be. They exist. Hopefully voat and steem will be on a MaidSafe web. This Forum is App developer geeks. And their fan girls like moi.


#76

Looking for a good chart that shows the the prices of companies on a stock exchange versus company earnings prices I came across this very interesting Bloomberg explanation about Musk’s companies. https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-04-20/elon-musk-nears-1-4-billion-windfall-as-tesla-hits-milestones. Enjoy.

I’ll leave it here and get to work now. But rest assured the divergence is shocking.


#77

tl;dr Here come some assumptions about billionaire business people I’ll never meet, but on balance Musk is a net win for the world.

It seems to me that people like Musk, Branson and the like are motivated by the urge to do things others thought impossible. Money is just one way of keeping score.

There aren’t many who combine a sharp tech mind, visions of the future and charisma (and he’s seeing Cameron Diaz??) so regardless of any shadiness (which might be expected at the bleeding edge of hyper stakes entrepreneurship?), I think the world would be a duller place without them.

I can see why some might deify him, but I imagine it’s mostly down to the subject matter of his businesses. Space travel and futuristic cars will do that. If he was a billionaire reinsurance innovator, I doubt we’d have heard of him.

Not entirely sure share price or profit margin are worthwhile measures of value or contribution at this stage in Tesla’s journey. I would be astonished if they didn’t plough all revenue back into expansion / keep raising cash to fund their R&D. Whether the GMs and VWs of this world will eat their electric lunch remains to be seen. Apples and oranges, perhaps.

Wife bought me the biography which he contributed to, so perhaps this thread will persuade me to dust it off.


#78

I fully agree on this one. If Musk really was after money he would’ve retired after he made 165 million dollars selling PayPal. He didn’t and went on to change the world.


#79

And he bet ALL of that $165M on Tesla and SpaceX (very good things) and nearly lost it all . . like I have said before, the world would be a better place if all the corporate leaders were taking such big risks on such worthwhile projects . . but too many are rorting the system and killing the world (Big Carbon, Big Tobbaco, Big War . . the list goes on . .).


#80

Ok, great. But maybe it is time to close this topic.

OP didn’t bring up the issue of his money, anyway; it questioned his vision (which I guess is not really an option here).