Does Safecoin Code Already Exist?

Development
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How far along is the coding of Safecoin? Of course there’s no Safecoin crate, but maybe it has been coded up and is hidden away somewhere. I doubt that it is an unactivated function in the existing crates, because I’ve looked. Is it simply a flowchart on a whiteboard?

The sooner a prototype Safecoin is running, the sooner the testnets can start experimenting with the equilibrium of disk space and farming and coin. Won’t that be fun? And what an attention grabber, getting publicity that you could not buy.

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It’s a structured data item. Several RFS’c outline the network balance and farming rate with code.

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Do you have a to-do list somewhere of what needs to be done to complete it’s implimentation?

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These are all the relevant RFCs and current status:

And there’s also the safecoin roadmap which currently shows all stages as ‘planned’.

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I think that, with the latest changes in the immutable data, some RFCs have become obsolete. For example, the calculation of FR based on sacrificial chunks.

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Thanks @dirvine and others for the replies. I therefore would hazard a guess from all that that an alpha safecoin is at least year away.

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@dirvine without making any promises, how accurate would you say that this timeline is roughly?

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if possible, next week :grin: :imp:

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… well David I does hint at time needed for SAFEcoin if not at the timeline itself… in his interview with John F Stream Ep32, David Irvine Speaks by Technology & Choice, and SAFE Crossroads podcasts | Listen online for free on SoundCloud

He says a (client) messaging function was setup in 2 weeks and could be completed in a ‘very short period of time’ with SAFEcoin taking ‘not much more than messaging’… but resource seems to be te big dependency here, again…

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I’m aware of that but, with all due respect to everyone, those are qualitative statements and therefore open to interpretation. There is too much interpretative reading of tea leaves on this forum (and I plead guilty, too).

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;)) yup, I hear you… then the ball is firmly in Dev team’s court to share progress. Also, your guess of Safecoin being at least a year away is a qualitative evaluation I imagine… :wink:

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No, it’s a quantitative estimate, since I put a number on it.

“taking not much more than” - qualitative

“at least a year” - quantitative

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Given the lack of tangible dead lines you can be pretty sure that it is not just 2 weeks away. I´d personally calculate in months rather than in weeks and given the insecure financing situation I´d add several months onto that. Expect at least one year, so you don´t get stressed with the counting of days…

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true, the estimates are of a different nature but end up being very similarly vague… ‘very quickly’, ‘months’ or at least a year… I think my point is that these estimates are based in subjective expression and info and not on updated RFCs etc… I would like to defer to David I’s estimate… but he suggests it would take 2 weeks+ not that it0s 2 weeks aways… timelines! David does not have great form on his timeline estimates! :smiley:

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No, “at least a year” is quantitative and precise: it puts a lower bound on the time to be taken. Nothing subjective about it. Of course, it would be nicer to have an upper bound as well, such as “given that we can raise $2m, alpha Safecoin will take between 6 months and a year.”

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Guys, is safecoin = maidsafecoin (in exchanger)?

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No. Maidsafecoin, a token in the form of colored Bitcoin, is promised to be exchangeable for SAFEcoin one-for-one when SAFEcoin is live.

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Agree 100%, the other part is the time to do a task, say make safecoin available. In the API for instance safecoin is type 7 as an example. If the low level API is available (which is happening) we can say use type 7 and that’s test safecoin, it will take a few minutes for a dev to create a type 7 structuredData. No farming. So how long for farm rate calculation, well we did that previously (but moved a couple of types away that were used). That was about a mornings work.

So why the hassle with times?

It’s down to priorities, this may mean, CRUST and utp is underperforming to the state the network won’t hold? Quick resources all go to CRUST.

Then we send to large messages in routing from vaults => rouces charge that way, forget making structuredData API available.

And on it goes, openness is screwed and mixed up with a theoretical, but it only takes 6 hours to get safecoin in API, or 4 hours for load balance of farming rates etc.

Then I personally get pulled into management of funds and business tings, so again the time is out.

Then of course optimism, this is where I fail as I see a task and want it done. I fail to see delays as I push through them myself. Not everyone does, but many of our Engineers definitely also do this, much better than me.

So to speed up lower level stuff, make a client testnet available, that works fine. So we can switch on safecoin API, yes, but the resources are in lower levels.

So every turn is resource bound, that will be alleviated now a we have increased and will accelerate recruitment again :smiley:

In terms of timescales we can give task estimates (tasks in roadmap in order, not immediately to be worked on, as there is an order), but the problem seems always skewed by resource allocation or re-allocation and that’s just life I think. This is why recently we even more aggressively do not timeline roadmaps etc. but instead focus on what we are doing per week. The progress is great, but much of it is so low level right now folks cannot see it and we can’t spend to much time explaining it.

That is changing now though and next few months then should see improvements. There will be moves that everyone will see to also alleviate this very soon (next few weeks).

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so basically @bluebird wanted to say: yes - safecoin == maidsafecoin (when those will be exchanged in the future) at poloniex/bittrex/…

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I think another way to say it is that safecoin is a relatively easy implementation on top of a very intricate and necessarily well-worked-out and balanced network structure. All the low level stuff being in place and flawless will make safecoin–and all the other fabulous structured data capabilities–pretty easy to implement.

Apparently the solidity of the underlying network structure is solidifying, but it’s an intricate dance.

We’ve all hoped for and expected a solid final product sooner and have been disappointed, the devs probably more than anyone. But it’s really the process and the people behind it that we’re trusting, not time-targets, isn’t it?

I think it will continue to be frustrating, till all of a sudden it’s not, at which point we’ll not only have safecoin, but a whole network in usable form.

Coming at this from the populist angle rather than a well-backed VC angle makes it tough on the organizational and developmental end. Being so public causes it’s own huge distractions–everybody has an opinion and/or attitude to input–but also gives the project something that money couldn’t possibly buy–everybody has an opinion and/or attitude to input, plus a whole lot of people who “get it” and keep the vision alive.

Props to David and the team for being able to fail in relatively small ways, yet keep the ball rolling toward the real end result, taking all the second guessing as an asset rather than a liability.

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