Discussions about marketing - forked from trading thread

Together with @Harvindar & @whiteoutmashups we’ve organise several PODs to gather supporters. So far most of the people we got in no longer following this project maybe because they’re not technical/lost patience. Sure we can gather more followers, any idea how to retain them?
Many of the statements are being thrown and seen as personal attack. Come on, we’re all supporters here. I believe we’ve contributed in some ways let’s remain friendly shall we? @Dimitar too has put in alot of effort to spread this project around. He has my respect. We can bash around discuss credentials but ended up we just hurting each another and it’s not productive. I’m afraid the final say rest with @dirvine.

As a community we’re on the same boat. I don’t mind hosting a zoom pod. We can have a relaxed conversation with a cup on hand. Who’s in?


We are all on the same team. Everyone knows this, don’t worry friend. There are no bad feelings between us, just another heated argument in the Safe Forum :love:


Well the idea was along those lines. Maidsafe had to fire a bunch of valuable employees, so if we can offer a temporary scaffolding with industry professionals who can lend us their time who would be working in a semi-officially capacity so we can get it going until the company can stand on its own, it is a fantastic idea.

So I am really baffled at this recalcitrant reaction against Sotros’ offer, it is both self-defeating and irrational. It is almost tribal.
We’d need more people like Sotros in other disciplines as well, so a talent pool of people willing to volunteer their expertise would be ideal, listing education, profession and years of experience. But we would need to know first if @dirvine approves of the idea.

We need contributors who does have domain expertise offering help in their area, otherwise we will be like a bunch of amateurs running around wasting time and effort stumbling into basic avoidable mistakes.


No one is against Sotros’ offer to work for free, we are all grateful to her. People are against using the money provided for development for these things that she wants to do now, because this money may be needed to develop the code, and I’ve been waiting 7 years to see working code. We are all waiting for this. Spending a lot of money on Hackatlons and other things now can be postponed until there is a working code.


Marketing has to have specific goal you want to acheive - what is it?

If Maidsafe need more third party developers and this is a good time for them to start coming in then marketing to them with that goal in mind could be a good idea.

But marketing a token to the broader crypto community or the general public without there being a working product even after so long just looks dodgy. The only visible purpose is to get them to buy the token from existing bag holders, so it looks like a pump and dump or a cash grab from developers who would rather live off investor funds permanently than ever deliver something.


Wow this thread signals the heat. I recall similar debates happening in this Nov 2019 thread started by the one and only @Dimitar. Lot’s of misconceptions about marketing and what it is plus the challenges of community based decision making and consensus. Some red baggage of centralised decision making thrown in.

I’d happily support the efforts from @Sotros25 - she clearly has deep knowledge of the craft, well rounded experience and grounding in what this project is about. At the same time everyone and anyone has the agency to go off in their own directions. The latter is mostly inefficient but meh…

Ultimately a concise strategy with a tactical execution plan is needed. I can volunteer a little time to collaborate and support on this - I have >10 years working in marketing and product/platform roles. I think we can do this with some directional focus and clarity. Combined with many tiny steps and have them compound. All the while harnessing the power of this community and the diverse network, knowledge and skills base.

This thread should continue. Why can’t we have a volunteer team collaborating for the time being with a clear strategy being executed? No reason at all.

(edit: removal of double mention and some additional context)


I have noticed one interesting thing while reading this topic, I wonder if you have the same feeling.
At least 3 people pointed out they are waiting to see the working product to get their people onboard. I realized I am also one of them, I also hold my family and friends back but surely spend a lot of time getting them on board once there is a working product.

I think some of you underestimate this self-propelling mechanism… The existing products will lower investment risk and increase community exposure. Being able to show something real allows getting community friends on board second. This itself is a great price pump cause nobody is actually selling in this environment. Once we are number 2 on storage-coins, this think goes further while people realize we are much more than just about storage.


I have not declared myself a marketing specialist and I do not want money from the company. I’m just clarifying if you haven’t read: I pay for the things I do with my money.


That was not an attack at you in anyway. I apologise if it was read as such. Also, I appreciate the effort and dedication you’ve demonstrated. :pray: :smiling_face_with_three_hearts:

I don’t mind criticism, I don’t think I know much and I would like to learn from people who know.

As I said, no one criticizes Sotros, but the proposal to spend money from the company. I have personally suggested several times that we raise money from the community for these things that she offers :love:


I am 100% for any community efforts and don’t need to approve of them really. It’s best they move at their own pace like an army of ants looking for that special thing that helps us all. As we move forward MaidSafe (not safe) will need many disciplines in place and we will need to bolster that (post-Fleming). However Safe the project will benefit from people helping, from the suck it and see folk to the likes of @Sotros25 using industry experience and proven methodologies.

In any case, it’s all great, but we grew a monster from a genuine offer to help at a high level with Marketing. So @Sotros25 your offer is superb and you know I appreciate it, but now is the time for some planning and less on this thread I think.

For everyone else, thanks folks we all contribute in our own ways, if we all share the vision then the process can be tried from many angles and who knows, somebody will hit gold, maybe stumbling along, maybe by precision planning, but all good.


I agree that community based funding should be the first avenue for marketing of the SAFE Network. Company (MaidSafe) funding should go towards development. Once Fleming is fully complete and we’re into Maxwell the community marketing fund could be topped up by the Company. If the Company decides a formal marketing team is required by that stage it might change.

But there does need to be a cogent strategy the majority of community members are executing. This requires expertise, but also some “buy-in” from the community. I’ve seen this type of initiative ebb and flow over the past 6-7 years. Emergence of self-organisation takes time. Maybe timing is right now.


Ideally a combination and interaction between the disparate and uncoordinated AND the cogent and coordinated.

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As others have said, the team is quite rightly 100% focused on completing the Network, and getting it in peoples hands, and that should not change. It cannot be underestimated how much thought space and energy spinning up new marketing initiatives—or even plotting these things out with 3rd parties—can consume so we are grateful for your understanding!

But here’s my 2 cents for what should be done, and where I think your generous offers of time, and boundless energy should be directed.

The core of any marketing at this point should focus on what the Safe Network will do for people, and how it will change their relationship with the Internet, and their personal data. Opening people’s eyes to what is coming, and showing them the possibilities that the Network will unfold for them is the drum we need to keep on banging, and the stories we need to keep on telling. It is:

  • Perpetual and global access to public information
  • Secure and private communication
  • Having real ownership over your own data
  • A realignment of the digital economy

We have barely scratched the surface of telling this story, demonstrating to people how their relationship with technology can be changed by the Network, and then of course giving them the tools to make use of it. These are the fundamentals in my view, and the cornerstone of any marketing of the Network.

There are a plethora of strategies that we could use to help achieve this, but I think we are often in danger of viewing the marketing of the project the wrong way around: the value of the Network will always be in the data and how people can use it to get things done.

So for example, we should be building strategies around how the Safe Network has the potential to make Facebook and relic of the past; or showing people what truly portable data looks like; or how small businesses will soon be able to shake PayPal and Amazon out of their eCommerce tree; or how it will tick every box on Snowdens wishlist.

Strategies that go something like “come and invest in MAID, because the Safe Network could be the next Bitcoin!” sells things short, and misses the mark in several ways; it mistakes ownership of the token with ‘onboarding’ and therefore success, it limits us to the bitcoin ceiling, and to the ‘crypto’ space in general, and does nothing to champion what drives the real value of the Network: the data.

So, I would say, let’s keep on showing people the future—it’s closer than they think.


This post by @JimCollinson bolsters my view of the necessity for any marketing campaign to be coordinated by a Maidsafe representative. If not now, then later, at the appropriate time.

While I agree that MaidSafe should be involved, it should really be coordinated by people with skills in coordination and marketing… that needn’t be someone from MaidSafe, and needn’t be one person either I guess. We’ve got a strong community here, and it can be powerful if it is pointing in the right direction.

I’ll hit up @Sotros25 and others and see what they need and what plans can be hatched.


I think that will end up being fruitful for all of us. No one is asking for as much as what I think is perceived. Just a tick of your time and where your and Maidsafe’s compass is pointing.

I bookmarked your previous post. You have such a knack for clarifying the big picture. Thanks Jim.



Which makes the point of those saying a plan has not been presented, and so no agreement can reasonably be expected. I find @Sotros25 avoidance of the necessity of a plan to be a bad sign, especially when some refer to her as an expert and pro.

Rather than more discussion, let’s see a tangible plan.


I wanted to be sure I hadn’t missed something, which I had, so I searched the forum for “plan @Sotros25 after:2021-01-01” and found one match:

If @Sotros25 and @JimCollinson develop a marketing plan, propose it to the community, and adapt it with good community suggestions, we would be ready to discuss funding options.

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Hi-jacking this thread a bit (Mods please move if req’d)

How do we get this community funding? Here’s a tangible plan to start with…

One painless way of raising some funds is by everyone on this forum using the Brave browser and signing up for Brave rewards. I look at just a few ads (like probably less than 2-3/day) but still managed to bring in 9 BAT this month - sure thats only $2.5 ish - but its $2.50 that is on its way to @Dimitar right now.
I think there are several hundred contributors and lurkers to this forum. If only half of them started contributing the BAT they can earn from Brave then we could be close to $500/month. In terms of a marketing budget, thats not a lot, but its a lot more than we have now and its effectively money for nothing.

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Have been dipping in and out of reading this thread, and I think there has been a bit too much ant powder spread around - if often unintentional. It’s great that we are at a stage of even discussing communications (for various reasons, I prefer to ‘marketing’, but this is personal!). To get some common ground and move into action, and if I may, I would summarize the main thread of feeling as ‘yes, but in balance / moderation’, ie…

  • Let’s get some plan, but equally let’s not take ages and make things overly complicated.

  • Let’s have some lite interaction with MS team, but this is community driven and we don’t have ‘approvers’.

  • Let’s get the timing right, and not jump before something people can ‘use’. Linked to above.

  • Let’s consider a budget, but let’s not be driven by that first.

  • Let’s have a coordinator, but this does not stop individual action or alternative individual approaches.

  • Let’s market the vision and capabilities, and less on the coin.

  • Let’s let the MS team be focused on product delivery but they also have an eye to the future and aware of the fact that communications may be needed.

Feel free to add… does this bring us closer to a conclusion? Meant with the best intentions.


Good summary of the thread imo.