Discussion of gender as it relates to humanity, medicine, civil rights, global agendas (No holds barred?)

Alternate title that was too smug to make the real title: “The Safe Network being used to hide everyone’s xenophobia”.

But yeah, everyone show off your ignorance so that I can counter it. Nobody is going to, though.

OK for real though, I am completely open to every aspect of the discussion; and I have no feelings of blocking people (unless they’re a max troll against the Safe Network itself) (or are a close friend for years who decides to stop being one… long story)—even if they’re vehemently against what I am bringing to this table, though it does make me get on edge, since it usually follows from an incomplete understanding. (I made this topic as a result from a random off-topic discussion within a more popular thread.)

My profile is that of a straight heteronormative cisgender male (with maybe some slight female intuition / sensibilities?) who just so happens to be involved heavily with someone who is a transgender woman. I feel it is my duty to spread awareness to her situation, as I have come to understand it, along with related conditions (e.g. transgender man, etc.). I was completely ignorant about the situation before knowing, and it took me awhile longer to grow from there.

I still struggle with other gender realities, but I am not one to judge until closely looking at the reason for each. Gender is a spectrum, after all, with male and female being on the left and right “number line” so to speak. This link is the best I can do, regarding that.

For me, and I’d imagine others who also share my profile (and related peers), it all seems silly straight away. But there is the definite ability to grow into the knowledge of it.

Sex vs Gender vs Sexuality
Is transgender a mental illness?
Why do transgender people have gender dysphoria?
Desperation and Safety in Transgender patients.

Ironically, the guy [in the above videos] who goes a step further beyond the medical treatment of trans patients than the classical norm has much better care than those who don’t. So current widespread science is actually not going far enough. I guess that’s the case in other fields, as well.

I don’t know specifics of most laws, but when Trump was in office, he made it so that every person is the gender that they are stated on their birth certificate. Then there’s the whole military ban thing, just straight up ignorance. Complete devastation for anyone officially wanting to be treated. There’s a reason the Supreme Court overruled Trump somewhere along this topic at least once, as a statement of human rights.

(A recurring theme unfortunately for me is not retaining some specifics, so apologies in advance. Maybe it’s my attention problem or something else. I’ll be glad to talk about anything that’s brought up, of course!

I’m starting to feel tired from here, but it’s a last but not least, kind of thing.)

Then there’s all the stuff as it relates to global, or elite (not sure what they have in the matter besides pitting everyone against each other, i.e. not actually caring about the intricacies of this topic) agendas, which I’m not really in the ball game for, but do realize that it exists.

Discussion on Joe Rogan’s podcast always seem to hone in onto two things — well, three if you count the complete ignorance and showing of transphobia all across some of his guest’s talking points and the comment sections, but that’s not up for discussion IMO aside for the complete eradication of such a thing — 1) sports, 2) prepubescent transgender treatments.

My own thought on the sports part: there is legitimacy there, but it’s used as yet another sensationalist topic to appease everyone’s ignorance on the matter of the condition itself.

My thought on the prepubescent treatments: yes, I see giving kids hormones as being child abuse. But I also see it as a field that needs growing, to be able to actually determine with 100% certainty whether a child will grow up to be transgender, via tests medical tests. Maybe that will never happen. Until then (or not), there’s just this video I can fall back on (“Treating Transgender Children”).

However, I don’t think I see puberty blockers as a bad thing. See: Puberty Blockers in Transgender/Questioning Children.

Hopefully I didn’t just own every single unaware person, and now I will just receive crickets, or dumbfounded silence. Anyway, nah, just kidding; there’s much else to bring up, so just share your experiences with all this!

Is this who you are whoring yourself for?
Is this how desperate you are to be seen virtue-signalling?

Try responding to the content. You’ll find I am doing this out of love and understanding. You will find that I have been utmost objective as possible about it. You, on the other hand, continue to resort to personal attacks for some reason. Your link is the farthest ever possible spot from the reality I am providing.

Give us peace with your word salad - Not going to fall for the onslaught of new terms because we know damn fine we cant win an argument with the words that have done us well for so long.l Better make up new ones and use lots of them to confuse folk.

No you’re not – more emotional blackmail, more of the “Just be nice” shite. Dont try to put yourself up as some kind of kind benevolent person - because you are not. You have ZERO moral high ground to try and claim.

"{please don’t make my friend want to kill herself}."

And right on cue, so precisely scheduled that it might be a Japanese Shinkansen and every bit as fast, the emotional blackmail train arrives…

What did I tell you? This mob are incapable of any discussion without trying todistortt it.

In Scotland at the last count there were 17 yes a whole SEVENTEEN people who had applied for a Gender Recognition certificate out of 5.517 million people thats 0.000003081% who are serious about their transgenderism - the rest are autogynephiles, cross-dressing inadequates and male prisoners looking for an easy way to harass real women in prison.
And we are supposed to turn our society upside -down for this particular noisy cohort? Women are supposed to give up their private spaces so some effing freak can “feel comfortable”?

Eff off we have plenty other things to worry about. So once again, take your “Be kind” and ram it. Was that shite about your inadequate “friend” part of some script you got fed?

Oh and do you think you get bonus points for sliding “humanity” into the title of the thread? You may try and fool some folk on here, you don’t fool me, pal.

How o Big Pharma get the money to you to spread this poison? Or are you just a “Useful Idiot”? You are either being paid or played. Go play elsewhere.

Parental discretion advised - contains disturbing images

I clearly state my reasons for my arguments. It has nothing to do with whoring myself out for anyone. I don’t give a f*ck about virtue signaling. I will debate anything that sounds stupid or hypocritical. Heteronormative is, well OK it’s kind of fancy. You got me there, I guess. But cisgender is literally a word and a useful one—an extremely important one in the contrast of the content that I am providing. Just because “cis” sounds heightened and floaty doesn’t mean it’s not legit.

Emotional blackmail, huh? OK then. I never said to be nice, just more objective and considerate, like a nice debate or whatever. You’re obviously extremely emotional about it, which I acknowledge comes from somewhere, so I try to understand it. What you call emotional blackmail is more like just me being sometimes emotional, just as you are, and most likely in response to you—since I have a deeply personal experience in this whole situation. I’d say emotions are warranted. Don’t stick the word blackmail on it just because my friend actually gets suicidal over improper details of this topic, because she does, and I’m trying to convey that. It’s a super strong emotional response, sure, but not blackmail. If it is, it’s the only thing I’m doing worthy of the term blackmail.

Alright, yes, f*cked up people exist. People who have no morals. That has no bearing on the people who actually matter, like my friend. And the tens+ of thousands of other people around the world. I don’t know what a percentage in Scotland has to do with global percentage. Someone fill me in there. Please can other people respond that are not so bias lol.

I’m not trying to fool anyone. F*ck the shit off with that. I’m trying to expose shit, just like you are. I don’t like Big Pharma. I don’t like useful idiots. I’m not being paid, and I am critical 24/7 to know I’m not being played. You are the epitome of damage control on this topic by being a representative so against it that it gets shut down by people fearing your take on it, which has some good points, but please I encourage more people with their takes.

It does relate to humanity. What are you even on about. Being a “freak” in the cases you bring up is still illegal. Please grow some sense, which first requires some new understanding. It’s almost purely humanity, by the way, if not entirely.

You’re calling my friend inadequate without even knowing her. You’re saying that I’m saying to be nice when I am not. Everything here is either incomplete knowledge or a fallacy.

Cis and trans are terms stolen from polymer chemistry.
Your “science” is that phony.

I am not really interested in your “friend” . Sad, maybe Im a bastard but there it is… Cos for every one of your “friend” (who pardon my cynicism but I suspect is as real as the kulaks horse) there are twenty chancers wanting to have free rein in womens private spaces without fear of being challenged. So your “friend” is simply the thin part of the wedge for some REALLY nasty people. See the article I posted above - And there is plenty more where that came from.
There are many many people suffering from mental problems a damn sight more serious and deserving of our sympathy than someone who has taken it into their head that the y were “born in the wrong body”
Mental heath resources are sadly limited. I will be a cruel unfeeling bastard once again and say “Get to the end of the queue, there are far more serious problems than yours and dont give us your emotional blackmail cos its not going to work”

Now I have wasted more than enough of my time on this crap.
I am far more concerned about an attack on MY wife, MY mother, My nieces, MY nice wee wummin neighbour next door by the evil forces behind your pathetic bleating about poor misunderstood loonball “friend”.

Nothing else matters except medical reality. Truly transgender people feel intense pain because of their neural architecture being one way but their body produces hormones opposite of that architecture. Imagine if your gonads were constantly putting estrogen in your system. Wouldn’t feel very good, would it?

People who don’t see that it’s possible to be a man in a woman’s body or a woman in a man’s body are literally, by definition, obsessed with sexuality and genitals. Where are your arguments against trans men? Probably nowhere, because it’s easy to pass as a man by taking testosterone for only a short while (until you check their gonads, which is obviously privacy encroaching). Meanwhile, transitioning from man to woman takes years, or even decades, to pass as a woman. Then they live normal lives as a woman. This does not mean that they are automatically sex offenders. That is beyond ridiculous it isn’t even worth analyzing.

This is the crux of everything! Don’t you see it!?? Why cater to something that’s not true just because 75% or more of the world don’t see it!! But it is true. In a way making it politicized has brought more people to understanding, so it’s now 60% instead of 75% or 80%; even if initially people didn’t understand it, they were likely more encouraged to look into the science about it. Unfortunately as a result we have the remnants of that sacrifice, that being political craziness, or caring about politics at all.

Getting the defence in early eh?
You REALLY dont want folk looking at the statistics on that
Cos it will prove you just lied.
Again we have the whining and the emotional blackmail. Life is tough, deal with it. Attitudes have changed, thankfully - Its OK to be gay or lesbian and no reason not to be proud of it either. Just accept what attracts you really and find someone who shares that attraction. And kindly leave out the slurs about genital fetishism - its curiosity about others genitals that makes sex and reproduction work. Without which none of us gay or straight would be here.
Accept evolution - cos you really dont have any say in it. Talk about farting against thunder?
Just dont talk pish about science so that Big Pharma can make a fortune pumping the deluded twats full of artificial hormones.

And as for the lies you posted above about puberty blockers… You should be effin ashamed of yourself for your defence of child abuse for starters.
You are every bit as abhorrent as those who practise female genital manipulation.

Now it very much looks like we are the only two who are in the slightest interested in this topic - I’m leaving now so you are on your own. Just stay away from the children. eh?

It’s a birth defect, not a mental disorder. It’s not just my friend. By extension you’re calling all other people with the very real condition loonballs. You’re not even stopping to think for one second that not all of them care about being part of some evil circle. Yes there’s the whole politicized aspect, and again it’s harmed them more than anyone else really, by grouping them more often into social circles that don’t care about the consequences beyond them being seen as humans. I would imagine an upbringing by having this medical condition does absolute shit-all for feeling any sense of normalcy. You’re basically attacking cancer patients. I guess if cancer patients had A Propensity to do evil shit, you would shit all over them? Most people aren’t evil, yet you’re catering to the argument against evil people as a whole.

I provided all my thoughts leading up to “That is beyond ridiculous it isn’t even worth analyzing.” You don’t think I’ve not had years to make sense of all this? Try quoting the rest of it next time. Also it’s not even early anymore. It’s quite late into this discussion, really. Also, don’t you think something as heated as this is going to have bias people everywhere making up statistics? You’re scant to find a level headed person who is going to find objective statistics. I’m just bad at doing that, and programming, so I don’t often do it.

What the living flying hell is a slur about genital fetishism? I don’t know what you’re bringing up most of the time. I wholeheartedly embrace evolution beyond a shadow of a doubt. What is everyone’s problem here? Why is everyone scared to chime in here? This is really disturbing.

What you see as deluded is sometimes deluded but mostly KIDS IN PAIN, SEEKING RELIEF. ABOUT A POTENTIALLY REAL MEDICAL CONDITION, THAT IS BEING DENIED FROM THEM BY LACK OF UNDERSTANDING. You talk about child abuse and being against it, but you keep focusing on politics and weird shenanigans. I don’t get it.

I don’t CARE about artificial hormones! I care about bio-identical hormones. They’re close enough. Close enough to give patients relief. Real patients. Not child abusers. You are a real piece of work.

Show me a source of people thinking that puberty blockers used for kids in potential need is child abuse. I already said that giving underage kids hormones is child abuse. This is not the same as a puberty blocker. If it is indeed bad then I rescind my statement about it being a good thing. I am trying to understand this. I am not against my own ignorance. Keep telling me to stay away from the children, though. Keep lumping in unrelated people into your arguments.

Nah - just ignore that – you are on your own here, sorry - Away and “raise awareness” with a more gullible audience, I think folk are too intelligent in here to be fooled by your crap. And hopefully cynical enough to see through the pathetic attempts at emotional blackmail that you just cant seem to stop using as a crutch.

You’re emotionally blackmailing yourself.
It’s quite astonishing. Never knew that was possible until now.

You’re right I will ignore it. Because it’s a stupid article. I don’t know what it’s trying to say. Maybe that’s what you think about the links I have provided. Except mine are medical and thus worthy to understand. Politics is the art of lying; that is why I cannot comprehend anything in that article.

Kind of glad this all happened. It really shows the types of arguments that are within people’s hearts, against anything new that might confront them. I do not like people who abuse the system for their own personal game/gain. And politics is indeed a whole ball game on its own. But of course people are going to be rummaging for power when there’s so much power to be given.

I feel like people want to like my posts more than his, but then they will be immediately seen by him and probably DM’d to fuel his own ignorance on the medical aspects, and emotionally canceled/dumped forever, thus leading to unwanted harsh feelings between them potentially professionally. Meanwhile, I don’t even look at the likes, because I just expect it to be a mob rule mentality (this isn’t the case in this thread so far, but it was during the Trading topic duration), and can understand: because, it’s just like pretty much every single YouTube comments section filled with ignorance and transgender bashing thereof.

Of course apologies if I am wrong about the puberty blocker argument. Maybe all this is really just for super long and annoying YouTube comment threads. But it would be nice to have a more personalized touch on it. I also wasn’t aware that this would show up in the main community forum field. But if people want to learn truths, try seeing these conditions for what they really are, rather than religiously fueled versions of other takes on them.

I already acknowledged that this [article’s contents are] happening, by some of my wording in a post I can’t even remember anymore. And it’s not pretty. It’s not Everything, however.

[Edited for clarity since otherwise you would twist it.]

All this is spiritually just paying you back for us not finishing this discussion in DM many months ago :stuck_out_tongue:

Transgenderism is not a word that is worthwhile to use. If it’s trying to refer to the fact of some movement being paid off by elites, then it isn’t a safe one to use, because then people try to twist it as a word to use appropriate for the innocent aspect of various transgender people’s lives. Pretty appalling that apparently it’s not a red-underlined word to otherwise note its lack of being in Firefox’s dictionary. But anyway: “Transgenderism : This is not a term commonly used by transgender people. This is a term used by anti-transgender activists to dehumanize transgender people.”

Can even one person acknowledge or at least start researching that this field is a legitimate medical study? I’m going to legitimately leave this forum if not. Call it emotional blackmail if you want. But I’ll call it for what it is: recognizing that people here aren’t worth respect if they can’t respect human dignity. This is an outrage and an insult to life itself. You don’t GET to have a “side” if it’s insulting a marginalized group by making fun of their condition from thinking it’s not real just because it’s counterintuitive to your profile or a popular thing to bash for utterly non-paradigm-shifting reasons. You can start researching, or you can fall into the camp of being a Southside. Lay off the global agenda sauce and you might begin to understand. That doesn’t mean discard/dismiss the global agenda completely. You can’t have discussion of one without the other. Good day.

“Your honor, that man just used emotional blackmail against me!”

“Sir, that was pathos.”

This is the most hurtful thing in the whole thread, telling me to stay away from The Children when I am doing no danger against them. How dare you.

Tell me why those are lies. I said “I DON’T THINK I see puberty blockers as a bad thing.” You are the most afraid individual of your own ignorance that I’ve ever seen, to the point where you gaslight other people, just that that afraid of yourself and your own thoughts. You are telling me that I defend child abusers. I said and did absolutely nothing of the sort. Treat me as an adult individual on this uniquely personal[ized] Internet forum, not some fantasy land mass mob.

I said, “I SEE GIVING KIDS HORMONES AS BEING CHILD ABUSE. NOT SO SURE ABOUT THEM PUBERTY BLOCKERS, THOUGH!” Because the latter doesn’t do any lasting damage (unlike hormones)—WHEREAS, DURING THAT STAGE IN THEIR LIFE, THEY NEED COUNSELING ON TOP OF THE ASSURANCE THAT THEY ARE BEING BLOCKED SO THAT THEY DON’T HAVE SUICIDAL THOUGHTS. ‘PLEASE TELL ME IF I AM WRONG, HOWEVER!’ - Implied!

ALSO, NOT EMOTIONALLY BLACKMAILING. I am not demanding anything in return, unless you count human decency/dignity as a return, which, wow can’t believe I need to ask for that in this equation of equality! Good dying day! F***!

What are you on about female genital manipulation. Keep throwing out these bizarre discussion points.

Long story short, if you call a trans woman a he or a trans man a she, without realizing the harm you are doing to the very nature of reality and existence its f*cking self, then you do not deserve an opinion on the matter. Literally all it takes is fixing that, and then you can start spouting whatever global agenda annoyance (I see it as very real and bad, regarding the people who want to be criminals in/about the matter, but I personally can’t be arsed m8) you want. It’s also about reading every single person as an individual. If their personality is shit and they seem like they’re defending criminals, then screw them. Being transgender doesn’t automatically make you an angel.