Dev Update :safe: Transcript 16th February

@culexevilman :

SAFEX has the potential to become a standard in the move to implement open cryptographically secured network transmission of financial data across the globe.

OMG I had my first SAFEgasm ™.


Not gonna hit the like button on your SAFEgasm :smile:

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Sorry, but I had to…where this fits in the jigsaw is becoming clearer to me I think.
Sounds like a condom brand name…lol

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Just to look at another crypto 2.0 project…

Etherex is a decentralized exchange that will probably launch with the genesis, so you’ll be able to trade your bitcoins.

So after Mt. Gox and other exchanges, the crytoworld is fixing problems by creating decentralized platforms
We don’t have to be longer scared that our coins are stolen and we don’t have to wait for a centralized exchange to trade our coins as well. No more “Vote for our coin to get on Cryptsy!!!” on some Bitcointalk forum. Love it!!!

Rubbish…wasn’t his first, I distinctly remember him getting his vault fired up and refusing to take the Tshirt off.


Apparently our concept of SafeEx is good :stuck_out_tongue:

That’s from December :slight_smile:


Seems to me that if one is to avoid the Silk Road dilemma KYC for both buyers and sellers is essential if they expect their currency to be used for payment for goods and services other than for shared internal network services, viz. data storage, bandwidth, messaging and whatever else is to come with the MaidSafe facility. But when it comes to mainstream trade in commodities, goods and services Safecoin will struggle to achieve stable convertibility. Furthermore to relegate one’s currency to a third party exchange, distributed or otherwise is just plain dumb because it immediately exposes the currency to manipulation and corruption by the usual suspects who can at the blink of an eye be ramped up from the ‘bottom feeders’ to include the agents of the world’s central banks who presently have and actively continue to destroy all semblance of fair price discovery in all commodities, gold, fiat currencies, interest rates, foreign exchange, stock market indices and bureaux of statistics.
The take-a-way from this post is to launch Safecoin as an internal currency tradeable only between MaidSafe participants with no third party in between.

I believe that is the main mode of exchange for safecoin, but there is no reason to not allow it to be traded in other means. It only has use existence on the SAFE network and can only be traded by interface with the network. Other than the crowd sale dispersion, it will come into existence in an extremely granular manner among almost all users (unless they only run a client without a farming participation, such as for a smartphone). It will be difficult to aggregate market-moving quantities when it is created in that manner, and the inclination WILL be to spend it amongst users, as well as for the network services one will wish to use.

It will be important to have some sort of exchange externally, for those who can’t farm or buy it from a friend (not necessarily a huge number of people). External exchanges, whether third party with KYC/AML or decentralized anonymous, will probably be important in order to keep a touchstone to the external economy. But, as I say, the ability to aggregate enough to manipulate the market will be difficult, especially once adoption gets under way. And unlike blockchain cryptos, safecoins will not be traceable beyond the first trade, unless the third party has a means of comparing notes with the first, and not even then if the second party shuffles them between more than one ID.

It is PRIMARILY a token to oil the function of the network, but that won’t keep people from using it for other things. And since freedom is the keynote of the network, there will be no reason or even means to keep people from trading through third parties.

Anyway, so it seems to me.

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Just a quick nooby question:
If Safecoin can only “live” on the Safe Network, how does an External Exchange work? What is the mechanism?

Right now for Maidsafecoin it’s the Mastercoin-protocol. So the people at Poloniex are running a Mastercoin-client to make you able to withdraw and deposit Maidsafecoin. When the Safenet is live using only Safecoin, external exchanges have to run a Safeclient themselves to provide the service of trading Safecoin. It would even be possible for stores to have a Safecoin-checkout system. The only thing that client has to do is run Maidsafe for the payment service using some special hardware.


I guess it’s similar to other cryptocurrencies, the exchanges have to run a full node, in case of safecoin, probably it’s enough that the exchange runs a client, not vault (like exchanges don’t have to mine). Then when you want to withdraw safecoin from the exchange, it will transfer safecoin to your maidsafe account, like a bitcoin exchange would send them to you bitcoin address. You could write down your credentials on a piece of paper like a paper wallet, the only question that I have: you can create a bitcoin wallet entirely offline (cold storage), can you do so with a maidsafe account? Probably not…

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It’s basically in Bitcoin you hold your keys locally, in SAFE these are brought back from the network on login. So it’s very similar except the keys are hidden in safe (no need to see them, but you can, they are there). Apart from that its very similar. Its likewise with messaging it’s very similar to pgp etc. but again we hide all the keysetup and registration to keyservers and certificate authorities.


According to the Safecoin paper you can “minting safecoin”, made transaction without a designated recipient that are saved in a file. This function can be used as cold storage among other things.

I found this to be the most relevant text to this

Mintedsafecoin is also more anonymous, eliminating theneed to store safecoins only in a digital walletthat can be compromised should an adversoryobtain access to a users SAFE Network creden-tials. However, there is risk that after the trans-fer transaction has been registered, if the ownerloses the external storage device containing thesafecoin(s), anyone will be able to claim owner-ship. However, this is no greater than the riskanyone undertakes when withdrawing cash froma bank, convenience comes at the price of secu-rity.

The most critical component like in bitcoin is that you must protect the physical access point with which you use your credentials; so in bitcoin if your private key can become known your bitcoins are lost; in safe network if your account information has been compromised then your safecoins are lost; yet you can add protection against movement of your safecoins within your user authentication through open source applications;

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This is very interesting. To have a real cold storage, you have to keep the “salt” behind an “air gap”, sign your transaction there and then transfer it to another computer to send it to the network. So this would be vulnerable only to an “equation group” or “stuxnet” style attack where the drive that you are using to transfer the signed transaction is compromised in a very nasty way. Then you could write down the salt on a “physical” paper wallet like medium, together with the confirmation from the network, and delete it from the “air gap” system (just to be sure).

p.s. Of course you could also transfer all necessary data between the computer using the keyboard (depending how long they are)

p.p.s. And regarding the necessity of all this: probably there will not be so many “gold bug” and “doomsday prepper” use cases for safecoin, as far as I understand it is not expected to be as deflationary as bitcoin (correct me if I’m wrong, there is a limited amount, but supply and demand are better balanced…), but I think especially for exchanges, it will be very important to hold some safecoin in cold storage…

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Will there be an update for the 23:rd?

In a (most recent?) presentation done by paige it was said that the testnet 3 should be up and running in 2-3 weeks. It is now a few days from that deadline of 3 weeks. Will it happen or is another delay a reality?

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Better not call it a deadline, it was an estimate. In my experience devs on software projects don’t like giving estimates to the public because then they get called on it if the estimate was off. Software engineering is an unpredictable thing…

That being said, like you, I am curious how things are going.