Cyber-Fund: Technical comparison between Safecoin, Bitcoin, Ethereum and more

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The guy who tweeted the first comparison chart has also got a website with a 79 page counting so called Cybernetic Economy Report 2015, also mentioning Maidsafe/SAFE network a few times: http://cyber.fund/cyberep .

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Dear @cyberfundio

Storj or Ethereum can crush them if dev team don’t make time to market requirements.

haha yeah ok… probably haven’t checked the latest release schedule for Ethereum.

As for the latest news on StorJ and their ‘Decentralized cloud storage

we are taking a step back to define in detail all the interlocking components of the Storj platform, including: contract formats, contract negotiation and how different pieces interface together

…sounds almost ready to crush like a daddy


The Maidsafe crew are a humble bunch, but they do work out every morning yoh:

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Haha well said @chrisfostertv

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Hi! I am an author. Do you really think that this is impossible scenario?
I really love MaidSafe and invested to honour inventors. But time is matter.
Don’t forget about Filecoin and IPFS with very strong signals:

I understand the difference between Filecoin/Storj/Ethereum’ Swarm and MaidSafe, but I assume that several modular systems could overcome one monolithic.

P.S. Sorry for mistake in estimated supply of MaidSafe
P.P.S. And thanks for ANY feedback as we do this research to deliver ideas for less engaged audience. That is unique market research of decentralized systems at this point of time. And we tried to do our best to be system agnostic.

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What kind of signals are you talking about ?

I think a lot gets lost in the fundamentals of all these projects really. A fully decentralised, anonymous and secure key value store is likely the largest of the differences, no servers (even federated) and the ability to self authenticate are the key points for us. I have been impressed with many of the other projects and attitudes (although I never knew I had so many collaborators :wink: ) to and think if we all learn from each other it will be terrific, but the challenge we have taken on is pretty large.

A critique SAFE gets is that it’s way too complex and huge and I can understand that, but a few weeks back we found a significant property of the network that has allowed significant reduction in this complexity in terms of implementation. I think this will transform the project to something that not only launches securely but more importantly will be able to move very quickly when we do have testnet3 on line. It’s been a while between 2 and 3 and that must cause all sorts of panic and frustration, but the outcome of these changes will be very dramatic.

So to me there is a propensity for some maidsafe tech to get branded around, we see other projects with farmers and a load of folk talk of a dht as well now, which is interesting and may be a sign of the right track. The blockchain as a database is also interesting, when we have a database that is decentralised (ala NOSQL type but secured, which is more important) and able to operate in the wild west of the public internet, then the proposition is very different and very thought provoking.

So a secured DHT that does not expose users/locations and certainly not identities is hard, but I think we have just found a way to make this much much simpler and I am exhausted and exited at the same time. I do see it very different from many projects i.e. I could grab a dht lib in python and knock up a demo of a decentralised (DHT) filesystem in a week or two (with no self auth or privacy protection though), it’s very different though, but would sound the same if you see what I mean.

The recent finds are way more important that nearly anyone has realised, but everyone is about to see how simple we have made this and then there can be massive improvements and contributions form a wide range of devs, making it all so much more a network for the people by the people and that is where I get really interested.

Of course until we do launch at least testnet3 I appreciate what we are doing sounds like so many other projects, but I am just pointing out the underlying differences are pretty huge. Of the others I think ipfs team seem to have a very similar goal/outlook (I have near zero time to research so apologies) and I hope we do get to share thoughts experiments and code when we are both up and running, it’s good to hear them talk as I know we have a of of stuff they can use from us to help them, especially research and all the many tests, trials and simulations we have done in so many areas.

I understand thinking a few subsets and bits of other projects can make such a thing, but this is potentially much more difficult, if the security is not in the very heart of the system at all levels then it’s bust. The security flows through to the user API so all libs really need to respect that, the only plug in parts really are self encryption and cross platform VFS and I would love to see projects do the latter much better. It’s a failing cross platform VFS is not as simple as it should be, we should all work to create such thing (FUSE on windows for instance)

Anyway hope that gives you some more info, I am not agreeing or disagreeing, just wanted to add some points and differences.

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I’ve put screenshots about signals:

  • Kind of people from the valley who are interested in this project. Top-10 in “Bitcoin” on Angellist.
  • Developers engagement and dynamics on Github.
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I think you did a good job overall and if you want the most accurate version, people here can help you.

The technology is now referred to as the ‘SAFE Network’ …as ‘Maidsafe technology/ network’ is now a superseded reference. If you could edit that outdated reference at least, it would help recognition of the project prior to launch.

Maidsafe are the inventors and current developers of the ‘SAFE Network’. Once the network is launched, Maidsafe the company will become Core Developers and members of a competitive, worldwide development network, known as POD’s.

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Thanks for clarification. Sure we fix it.

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As far as logo for ‘SAFE Network’ would that now be Safecoin logo as opposed to Penrose triangle for articles and websites like this?

Thanks for exhausted answer, Irvine. Cannot wait to see.
To be honest I am not super developer. But is happy to learn than the Safe Network become steady! So waiting for test 3! So many ideas to implement.

Possibly Chris, although it may send a money signal as opposed to the real value of the network perhaps. Maybe we, the community need a community logo for SAFE network ?

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No worries hope it helps at least a bit. We often get confused with so many other things that sound similar. It’s entirely understandable as well. Anyway I am back to work now, so much to get through and so little time :slight_smile:

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Maybe the winner of the Safecoin logo could morph it into something like this to keep the connection:

Sooner than latter I’d reckon if there’s to be a new one…

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I’m told the correct wording is ‘SAFE Network’ with the capitalization :wink:

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There is also much emphasis on the competitive nature of getting these systems to market. To me, this “competition” is mostly from an investor point of view of where to put money to get the fastest/best return on investment. It obscures the cross-pollination of ideas that happens in the dev circles, because the projects are open source and there is a culture of design sharing in this nascent “decentralized cryptoeconomic” field.

Behind the scene, some of us have been talking with others, like Ethereum, and I am personally advocating the emergence of a research community to properly review and improve all the core algorithms behind the systems to make sure they are correct so the resulting systems are reliable and secure. These problems are hard!

Bottom line, we are not loosing by having more incumbents, we are winning because more resources are thrown at the problem, and the design space can be explored much faster. As solutions to the sub-problems are found and validated, they can be shared quickly and reused by other projects to get much further faster.

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I think the safenet will be the best. It could be so efficient that you could mine the others profitably with it.

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To give more specific examples, MaidSafe was one of if not the first decentralized project to have a crypto-currency pre-sale to fund development and it blew everybody’s mind how quick they would sell out. This was also a roller-coaster ride with its share of mistakes along the way but the other projects that followed, such as Ethereum, had much smoother sales. And now the legislation around these is starting to take form.

So MaidSafe already contributed in pioneering the approach and as such has blazed the trail for other projects to follow and not repeat the same mistakes. This is already a big contribution for the advancement of decentralized technologies. And I guess now the collective investment in these technologies is in the order of maybe 20-30 M$US? This is pretty amazing given that the funding does not come from either a research agency, such as NSF, or a big private research lab from a single company. The field is actually moving faster than both of them to the point that now IBM and Samsung are forking Ethereum source code to experiment on the Internet of Things.

Ethereum has a cryptoeconomics mailing list to go deep in the game theory background of protocols, and Dominic Williams has been rightfully stressing the need for correctness proofs of distributed algorithms. He got interested in better understanding those MaidSafe is using. It means that once I have more formal versions of these algorithms ready, there is others out there ready to try to tear them apart and see how they hold. If they don’t they will be improved until they do and if they do, others will learn from them, so we all win. MaidSafe does not need to have them as employees to profit from their expertise and vice versa.

IPFS has shown incredible velocity in building a working demo of many things that were discussed on this forum including a gateway from the regular internet to their system. All their code is open source, can be studied, and their API and implementation can be compared to the one MaidSafe is doing. MaidSafe can learn from them as IPFS can learn from MaidSafe, we are all watching one another and learning along. This is unheard of in any conventional corporate race to market (try to do that at Apple!), where everyone would jealously guard their secrets to profit from any edge possible. This field is behaving in the opposite manner.

These are only a few examples but they are sufficient to show that we need to think beyond the race to market of conventional corporate “innovation”. The key is the level of transparency and openness in the development of the projects and I believe this in turn has been enabled by the integration of financial technologies which turn these systems in Internet platforms rather than products. This is super exciting!

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I think Ethereum and SAFE could definitely be integrated together along with others I do not foresee them superseding each other.

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