Criticisms on marketing

It was honestly NOT meant as an insult, more of a criticism to the team to focus more on marketing in general. I agree the use of words might have been a bit harsh, and I do apologise for that. I probably used harsher words than I should have. The marketing team is, in no doubt, made up of awesome people and they are trying their best, and i think that’s great, although, it’s not as effective, compared to other marketing teams out there who reaches for project partnerships, big exchange listings, and makes weekly video updates, as well as making updated and clear video explanation of the network etc. etc.

Don’t take the word ‘incompetent’ personally at all, I’m only relatively comparing us to other marketers, and saying the marketing team isn’t as effective by certain measures, so I said they don’t seem to be able to do the intended purpose of marketing, and in that context I used the word incompetent(which i now regret) to only mean this. Again has nothing to do with insulting individuals at all, it’s simply a criticism for the marketing team that they may need to hire more people and do certain things differently, for example, and I agree i could have worded it better.

I just thought i’ll clarify my intention so it doesn’t get misunderstood by people who may take offence, as I really did not mean it as an offence – I will change my use of wording next time. It was simply a reflection of the frustration I have towards the marketing of this project as well as the frustration i have towards such a great project not being popular in such a space where all the other project who doesn’t have any good technology or philosophy is being more popular than this project, if not way more. It’s inherently frustrating, so please understand where I’m coming from everyone.

Anyways… I’ll be off now, hopefully every branch of the safenetwork team will excel and do great things for the project its vision this year!


Devcon, for me, allowed me to see some seriously smart people explain where they have been and where they are headed. Also the frustrations they have suffered. We the tokenholders are so fortunate with the entire team and what they are achieving.


OMG you came back for a curtain call, but the Theater was empty.

Is this it? are you gone now?

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Listen to what people have been saying to you. We do not and cannot read your minds and take what you write. And your writings are nothing but insults, complaints and telling people they cannot do their jobs right.

Why don’t you apply for the marketing position in Maidsafe and with all of your great knowledge on how things should be done, you should be a shoe in for getting the job and excelling at it.

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Some thoughts to you from me until you return.

I think that before you ask of others to listen and learn from what you say, you need to be able to do that yourself.
I and others have said, that the way you come forth, the words you use, does nothing to help you getting an understanding for your message.
It has been said a long time ago, and just the other day also. You liked the post, then a few hours later you can’t help yourself and go about the same way anyway. And you even regret it afterwards after people point it out to you.

I’d say you have a lot to learn about people and and human interaction.
There are many rash assumptions made, an exaggerated view of yourself and your ability to know things about the MaidSafe team (and others), how they work and what considerations they must make.

You actually thought it’d be attractive for them to collaborate with you the way you rumble, just shows how you have a blind spot in that area.

If you want less frustration in your life, I really suggest you try to grasp what all this implies, and learn from it, improve as much as you can on your formulations, holding back impulsive outbursts and be more open to the possibility that even though it seems perfectly clear and true in your mind right now, it does not have to be the actual reality. We do see very limited fragments of the whole. It will make you less definitive and judgemental about others.

I think that you will tumble with these feelings and these reactions from people for as long as you do not really deal with those things.

I actually agree with you that criticism is many times much much more valuable as source of information to learn and improve, than mere patting on backs. Call it tough love for example. But it can be delivered in a damaging way, with derogatory formulations that have nothing to do with wanting to help, rather to further one self or oppress others. It can also be delivered in a friendly and uplifting way. But it almost always needs long preparation in that you need to build trust before you are allowed to go hard on people, trust that you mean well. You have skipped that part entirely.

In diplomacy, use soft words and carry a big stick. Now, a big stick in that context means some means of power to defend yourself. In this context I would say the analogy is powerful arguments.

I am very off topic now, sorry about that. Maybe this and other posts can find a home in some other topic by some help of a moderator.


And I’d add walk in the shoes of the other person for a mile before judging them and their actions.

In all fairness, the marketing team hasn’t really had much to work with since they have built up the team. I’m going to see how they promote alpha 3 and how well they push the product after a timescale is provided before I make a judgement on how well they are doing. Hopefully these are both soon :slight_smile:

Now I kinda hope to see MAID drop to about the 200-300 spot just to watch you cry more. Seriously harassing the good folks of MAID throwing shade about being incompetent just because they have a different opinion than you. This team is about the tech, and if that bothers you then pick a different one out of the 10,000+ hype coins out there. This network is going to be kicka**, and that itself will yield long term value to people who wait(and probably not have to wait all that much longer, maybe even just another year!). These near sighted troll posts are getting old. I am done responding to them but I could not let this one slip by without one last comment. Sure others can handle it from here :slight_smile: .


I think foreverjoyful is actually eternallysaddened and that’s why he tries dragging the world down with him :cry:

Btw Sarah and Dug, you two are killing it and I couldn’t be happier with your efforts and corresponding with you is always a pleasure. Keep up the great work!!!


So because I take a whizz on your lawn every morning it’s ok because I call it water?

Apologies for the sarcasm, passionate people are great and yep there were a couple of little points in his topics that were worth looking at a bit deeper at but for better or worse peoples personalities generally are difficult beasts to even attempt to harness.


Yes your right, I was just trying to lead down the route of yes he’s a not dill by any means and we will certainly leave the door open, just it’s on him alone to make the adjustment and return not for anyone else to worry about in the slightest :slight_smile:

It means he’s not an idiot. Some of his content was worth at least further discussion, unfortunately a few little things stopped those messages getting broken down and at least discussed a bit further. Shame @neo is offline atm may have helped dragged those tidbits out without the snowballing effect.

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A bit of inspiration for anybody criticising marketing atm:

“People don’t buy what you do, they buy why you do it.”

Listening to Simon speak will make you realise that MaidSafe’s marketing isn’t bad, far from it. They’re doing a great job so far, given it’s only been a few months of active marketing with just two people.

Getting your message heard without a fully fledged product is hard, very hard. Anybody in marketing will acknowledge that. But the tone of the message and the message itself is great. Some of the older podcasts with David and Nick and all the blogs are a great example of how good of a message MaidSafe has. The ‘why’ is clear. It is exactly the reason why I and probably most of you joined the forum in the first place.

I do understand that it’s hard for some people on the forum that have been around for years to accept, but marketing SAFE has just begun. How about we just strap ourselves in and enjoy the ride.

Getting the message heard will happen eventually, I don’t have a single doubt about that.


Speaking of getting the message heard…

Are there any good Scottish documentary filmmakers? Getting one on board for the ride might be fun.
Scotland->independence->freedom->SAFEnetwork. There’s a good story in there somewhere.

Let him/her follow the team until launch, with a symbolic press of a ‘launch-button’ at the very last second of the documentary. :wink: (Edit: with ‘Highland Cathedral’ playing in the background.)

If it’s a good documentary, it might even be featured at hundreds of documentary filmfestivals around the world with ‘free thinkers’ like us.


Hmhmm and it’s very understandable that people have a hard time to let go of the blockchain dream and accept a network claiming to make most blockchain project look like slow and clumsy ducks (but ‘hasn’t delivered yet’)

… So much marketing went into making the blockchain a thing… I don’t think people will be able to accept our dream here before they think it’s proven to work for sure… (and it’s not like they would ‘loose one of the blockchain projects’ they tried to hedge against each other… In case of success of the safe network they might just loose most of them… So might be a hard to accept Version of reality)


Most people in crypto are sheep anyway. They swallow every version of reality that self-proclaimed ‘authorities’ throw at them.

When you hear sir Tim Berners-Lee (and in the future undoubtedly many more real authorities) to be interested in SAFE, that’s when you (should) know something’s up.

A few might really be aversive to SAFE because there’s no blockchain, but if that’s really the core motivation to dismiss SAFE, then that’s pretty short sighted and ignorant. It’s not about blockchain, it’s about why we need decentralised technologies like it.


You know, since you’ve said this to me I guess I should say one last thing for you to think about too. Of course, I do appreciate your good intentions in saying all this, and of course, I will take this into account and reflect on what you said, but I think it goes both ways. Do you think the community should, judge and treat me by who I am and how i come across as a person, or by objective arguments made by me? My intentions could be to bringing down the whole team and the project, but if I am saying something factual, namingly my arguments regarding the exchange listing(which is the original thread in which you have commented on the way I come across) does it matter what my intentions are? I think the community as a whole would be better off if they have interpreted by arguments just as that, regardless of how I present them.

So instead of blaming it all on me, saying that I, solely, should change, I feel it goes both ways, if people are less sensitive and emotional, and just treat everything as is, realising the person writing the post might just be a little frustrated and pissed at it all, it would also help. I’m not saying I’m not at fault here or shouldn’t change, but I do feel like, to help the community and project, there can be changes made from both sides, both the poster and people reading the post. You might have other people like me writing posts the style i write them, they might suggest a helpful idea, but just because they didn’t present as a person you like(perhaps they’re also pissed or frustrated at something about the project) , you then judge them as a person and dismiss their ideas? Well, how much would that kind of behaviour help the project and community?

Anyway, something for you to think about too. I guess this is going more in the realm of philosophy, so I’ll stop now.

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I was expecting a response like this, because I think you are right about (some of) it.

There are many people on the forum, and there are curt and arrogant responses to newcomers too sometimes, although far far less than would be expected on an internet forum. The openness, and welcoming attitude is astounding IMO.

But small communities also develop certain cultures, and it’s easy to be defensive against different people (a more radical, aggressive tone for example, which is very different from what is generally appreciated here). And it is also easy to get slightly biased towards the well known members, even in cases when the ideas are not that different. That’s how people work.

But knowing this, one can help oneself by adjusting to it. If you want I mean.
I just think it would be easier for you to get judged by your ideas only, and less by who you are, if you did like that.

There has been many characters on this forum that didn’t do like that, outspoken and spontaneous and crossing limits of different sorts. Many of them have been very appreciated by the community. Some of them have eventually clashed with parts of it and left. They would of course have been part of and formed this community if they had not left.

There are pros and cons with tight communities. On one hand they work well together, on the other hand, it can become a bit monocultural, and miss out on some important ideas. It’s a classical problem with no easy solution, either way you steer there are new pros and cons.


I don’t always agree with you, but I respect the fact that you say what you think. You’re passionate, and I like that. Well-founded and constructive criticism or not, it takes guts to go against the grain and to take potshots at sacred cows. That in itself is a quality that you should cherish. Though, it takes even more guts to be proven wrong, to admit it, to adjust your opinion and to go from there. (I’m not saying you’re wrong on anything btw, that’s not the point)

Just treat people with respect and be a bit more understanding towards other people’s perspectives. That’s all there is to it I guess.

Protip: put IMO in every sentence. :wink: :+1: