Coronavirus Mega Thread

Nope. I said voluntary.
The lock down in the UK is largely voluntary.
And a voluntary app would work just as well.

I have already notice the vast majority of my social circle are respecting the lockdown, we have regular social contact on the internet.
People who I know that didn’t respect the lockdown, some now have COVID - but at least I have been told.
I am exercising my right to avoid them, before they were infected and after because the consequence of their choice of non-compliance. They are idiots.
If a friend withheld their positive status from me, and socially interacted with me - that would be it, I would cut them off for life.

The simple choice here is…

If a voluntary tool was available, to increase the chances of good health of people around you - you would walk away from it.

And that’s where i will end this. I, my social circle, would fully embrace such a tool, and I will go out of my way to avoid people off my white list, because that is my right.

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In other democratic countries the lockdown is forced, without a vote.

You have decided you think it will be voluntary but as the discussion has shown, that even by human nature, it will be mandatory.

Now, if a government makes it mandatory only time will tell, but if I remember correctly from the article it was UK’s health minister who proposed this idea. It seems the idea didnt come from the people but from the current government. Again, do you not see the possibilities of abuse? Do you know why health privacy laws were put in place? I too will leave it at that, we are just going in circles.

What is it about the virus that has you so concerned/worried? I wouldn’t have expected many of your statements in this thread (throwing privacy/freedom out the door, social banishment)… you’re always such a positive and happy guy. Genuinely curious and wishing you well…

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How deadly/contageous do you think the virus is? What do you believe of e.g this video and what not?

Just to point out here, from that tweets thread by the author in reply to another user:

Health authorities learn nothing
Users learn nothing about other users
Users learn if they WERE too close to others who tested positive
Governments learn nothing about users
No-one is coerced: everything based on genuine, voluntary consent.

There are some positive things in there. But ,on my emphasized and caps part:

This means that no one would know if I had the coronavirus or not. Thus I could walk past @zoki on the street and he would only find out shortly thereafter that, if it was a busy high street, such as manhattan, he would have no idea who that person was.

This would maintain the need for social distancing, a reduction of social interaction, a continuation of paranoia of being close to strangers.

I do not see the positive side of this. I do not know the answer to this problem but I do see dire consequences, of apps such as these, to the social human beings that we are by nature.

One minute, how do you know that? Did I ever say that?

Perhaps you are stressed, which is understandable, I get super stressed sometimes too. These are stressful times. That’s why I listen to Music of the Day (shameless plug).

But, @zoki this conversation started about governments wanting to create a health app so we can see others health etc and you were pro for it, no need to get back into that but then you switched to it being voluntary, which I have stated above worries me also. And my logic in the conversation still stands true to me.

Either way, you came to a conclusion about me that you don’t know to be true. If I came across that way my apologies but it is not what I said.

Edit, (after @southside like) a government mandated/voluntary app I could have a hard time with because I have a hard time trusting them.

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Imo it’s probably 10x more contagious and widespread than believed. Which means it’s 10x less deadly (on average) than fearmongers in the media would have you believe. It will be years before we have enough data to know for sure, maybe never know. I read it’s most often passed by touching surfaces and not washing hands before touching your face/eyes/mouth. So it doesn’t matter if you have already had it, or an asymptomatic carrier, or not infected yet, you can still pass it around in the environment… just like any other virus. I wouldn’t be surprised if we later find out that most kids had it and didn’t even know or have more than a sore throat for a day. Don’t Panic.

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^^^ This exactly, and all the politicians are jumping to conclusions to save their vote, and we are just accepting it. And new laws are being passed, and ideas of health apps etc are being passed around. Everyone is scared of one another etc. This is not how humans are meant to live. It to me seems to be all based on fear and as I have said in the other thread, my fear is not of the virus but of the reaction and how it may hurt generations to come.

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Where does that number come from?

Well we have a hard time trusting anyone/anything these days so I get where you are coming from.

However the countries that have had the most success (so far) appear to be those who can quickly and efficiently control their population, sometimes at individual cost but to the greatest benefit for the greatest number.

There is going to have to be some kind of compromise, those who will not compromise and scream about “freedom” can have their freedom - IF they stay away from everyone else and take no resources from anyone else. NO EXCEPTIONS

EDIT: meantime we must do what we can. How many processor cycles have YOU donated to Folding At Home?
Pontificating on the injustice of it all is fine and well, its practical action to find a vaccine we need right now.
Otherwise prepare to be dismissed as just another loud-mouthed sceptic with plenty to say but nothing to offer.

Our health department in Sweden says it is very rare to get infected by touching surfaces. To be infected by surfaces they say you need to touch the surface right after someone just before have coughed on it. When the dropplets drys it can’t infect you. They say most get infected by standing too close to someone who coughes.

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Is that the Sweden that already has a higher % of deaths than its peers?
The Sweden that may have some sort of economy to come back to but far fewer Swedes to participate in it? That Sweden?

PS. Normally I am a very well disposed to Sweden. Anywhere that gave us Saabs, Henrik Larsson, so many drop dead gorgeous women and meatballs can’t be all bad. We will politely not mention IKEA.

This is from an Oxford University study

.

It estimates environmental transmission (surfaces) is 10% of the total.

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Not Sweden from what I have read. They are having pretty good success and from what I read they are doing it by education, not by hurting people’s livelihoods…

Thats just the communism in you talking isn’t it.

Come on now @Southside you put a like on my post in that thread just today. Where’s your memory mate.

Don’t throw me off like that, I have a lot off valid questions that have yet to be answered in my posts. Questions, just as your testing, contribute. So does my computer whirring away day and night as you should know if you remember :wink:

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I think he said “imo” @JPL. I am sorta on the same side. I believe it is much more widespread than thought and it has been passed around multiple times already. I remember seeing that what 99% are asymptomatic…

First to admit its poor these days…

I’ll answer your other points later, son#1 has reappeared from quarantine for 3 weeks on a rig in the North Sea and its time to make him a good meal :slight_smile:

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Yeah, but if you’re going to say I think something is 10 times as big as is generally stated and then base a theory on it it needs to be more than a hunch, IMO

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Not according to this article I had posted:

ER docs in NYC claim the opposite (for the general population).

“We estimate 86% of all infections were undocumented (95% CI: [82%–90%]) prior to 23 January 2020 travel restrictions”