Competitors getting popular

There has been a lot of hype about a certain competitor who shall not be named. They promote themselves as ‘Decentralised Internet’ and all of the youtubers keep banging on about them. They also -
indirectly - claim to be way ahead of maid which is not true.

May I suggest someone more knowledgeable than myself adds events on coinmarketcal.com as it currently doesn’t have anything on maid which drives investors & interest away in my opinion.

I am personally against spamming the idea of Safe Network in every crypto reddit but casually mentioning it in a non spamming way I think can bring a lot of benefit.

Still not selling in these all time high times myself

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I understand at least one decentralised internet team is spending 30% of their crowd fund on marketing.

Which competitor is that ?

All I wanna know is if they’re blockchain based or not.

The blockchain is no place to put an entire internet

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I assume Substratum is meant (otherwise maybe this :wink: ).
If you want to discuss (or see previous discussions of) Substratum, you can do it in this topic:

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They use a blockchain for payments based on resource use, but not for anything else afaik. I have not seen details on how routing is performed, how data redundancy is maintained, how nodes are elected to perform DNS duties, how DNS is performed, how their censorship voting can be accomplished, etc.

I have been reading through the reddit pages and trying to glean more info, but it seems like people there only have the white paper to go on. White paper is here: https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://substratum.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Substratum_English_Whitepaper.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwjFiqKX-KfYAhXnLcAKHZrOBZUQFggwMAE&usg=AOvVaw263PHC4BdfxtB99qkziE7t

Apparently, the custom DNS will route to active nodes using HTTPS. However, I haven’t seen any explanation of how HTTPS certificates are purposed and if sites resolve from regular DNS names, it would seem easily subject to censorship. There are no details on how DNS is done, how it is distributed, which nodes can do it, etc, afaik. There is no mention of namecoin or anything similar in the white paper either.

I also can’t see how data is duplicated or deduplicated and there is no details on caching mechanisms or how it may scale with demand. We don’t know how the data is secured either, other than encryption being used.

There was some talk of substratum being like a distributed VPN by some, but this seems incorrect. The white paper suggests it can replace Tor and VPNs, but in detail, it just means data on their network will not need a VPN, as they claim the routing will be firewall resistant. Without more info, it is hard to say either way, but from as no new software is said to be needed, we have to assume DNS will be the first weak link, followed by HTTPS man in the middle attacks if certificates are not issued (how can the cert agency vouch for the nodes?).

There has been no source code released yet, but some have said it would be released after the beta. The beta was due Dec 2017, but looks to be delayed until early 2018.

However, their market cap is now over half of of maidsafecoin and their Google trends activity is probably 20 times that of maidsafe. Saying that, SiaCoin, Storj and SkyCoin are also ahead of maidsafe is Google trends, with maidsafe not really catching hold.

I remain convinced that SAFENetwork is far more advanced. It is already open source, there have been many test nets and now 2 alpha nets. SAFENetwork still needs to prove it can work in the wild with fully distributed nodes, but we have even had test nets exercising that.

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Thanks very much for verifying what I thought was correct :slight_smile: very helpful to know

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It saddens me that their project is so much more undeveloped yet has so much more hype somehow =-S

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Yes I was asked in the live chat to compare the safe network to substratum but had a hard time to say anything because their whitepaper reads like a collection of buzz words to me but I didn’t see details on how they plan on accomplishing their goals…

Edit:
Ps: Okay what I wanted to ask someone about substratum who knows the project more (didn’t have the time to get in touch with someone but maybe one of you might know /get the answer)
… If you do a request in the substratum network; you plan the whole path of the request /data delivery to the piece of encrypted data and back to you…
… In my head that is only possible if you know at least the location of the requested data and the structure of the network ‘between you and the data’… So with substratum… Does that mean you have to first ‘download the internet’ before you are able to surf it?!

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In such cases I think a valid response is… If you can explain what X is to me, and how it achieves Y, then I’ll try and explain how that compares with SAFEnetwork.

It seems to me that most often people ask us to compare SAFEnetwork with X without themselves having an understanding of X, which means anything we say is not really valuable to them anyway.

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From what I gather, substratum nodes are essentially just servers run locally, instead if data centres. Presumably, there is some extra code grafted in to enable billing too.

So, it looks like their custom DNS just routes requests to an IP address which is running a server (web, database, etc). Again, details are limited, but that seems to be the gist of it. What this means for data security, how it is passed between nodes, how keys to access the data are distributed, etc, remains unclear and a substantial challenge - stuff that maidsafe has spent a long time resolving.

Additionally, how nodes are kept secure is also unclear. Running off the shelf web/database servers would need strong sand boxing. Maybe virtual machines are used, but that would add a considerable overhead and setup complexity. Obviously open source servers would need to be used too in this environment.

There seems to be a lot of unknowns and it seems like a lot of the really hard problems haven’t been described or their solutions. Maybe they have a great project, but I don’t know how anyone can say so with confidence at this stage.

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Yeah in telegram it’s a lot of non technical people too - I told them that I can try and compare if someone tells me how that should work…

People try and ‘get a feeling’ about how one project is compared to the others I guess and I try to communicate we are a open community and direct them to forum topics about their questions if I can =)

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it’s obviouse some of them wont release any code until maid is at release
then they copy safenet and make a fork
that’s why right know they’re paying people to advertise them
their trying to hijack your hard work as their own

and yes, i’m talking about the ones that don’t mention either they’re using blockchian or not

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Maidsafe should redesign the site inorder to target non technical people
there is very little informaition on maidsafe.net about the network that ordinary people can understand
now look at their site
no wonder their becoming more popular

I guess I don’t mind hard forks as long as my maid is copied to w,e the currency of the fork is

SAFE is not a blockchain so you can’t really ‘fork’ it as I understand. You can copy the code off github of course, but given the number of patents held by the MaidSafe Foundation I would be surprised if anyone was brave/stupid enough to do that. Everything from self-authentication to datachains is protected and unique on SAFE.

I would not worry, these folks are just capitalising on the zeitgeist. David was a visionary and as a Network engineer he had a privileged and fairly unique understanding of the challenges and problems we’d face as the web evolved. The rest of these guys are just trying to hop on a train with their own ideas now that it has become obvious to the whole planet that data silos are a very dangerous and socially harmful way to manage our data. It’s all well and good to see these projects popping up and garnering a lot of support, we need lots of people working on these kinds of problems, but it doesn’t make them very investable imo. That’s probably why they have all focused heavily on marketing to attract interest in their projects.

I try to keep an open mind, but the more I look in to these other attempts at a decentralised web the more I find I am disappointed by a total lack of substance.

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I don’t see how ‘hype’ about SAFE will help development. It is only good if you are interested in short-term gains, and not what the network is actually about.

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I agree, the finished product will speak for itself. Word would spread fast enough through the crypto and tech community organically when something of this magnitude begins to deliver.

Would it be advantageous to be more well know though for the purpose of gaining more vaults early on?

Afaik, they are replicating the traditional model of hosters paying the network for requests served.

Edit: Presumably this means they will have the same security issues as traditional server hosting models, but with a huge additional attack vector (no network level firewall, etc). Data protection would be an issue here too.

It also means that data can easily be associated with a data/app owner and the hosting node owner. If there is anything someone or some authority doesn’t like, they will find you and shut you down.

Ofc, lots of reading between lines by me here, as obviously we don’t have much to go on.

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Another comparison thread here. Feel free to dive in: https://www.reddit.com/r/SubstratumNetwork/comments/7mjan6/can_anyone_here_explain_the_pros_and_cons/?utm_source=reddit-android

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