Community Exchange Listing Fund

This is correct. The wrapped tokens are just a representation of some underlying asset. So if the MAID backing the wrapped tokens was swapped to SNT, the wrapped tokens would remain the same, just what they are backed by would transform.

Hopefully you have read the debates on burning vs a snapshot for conversion. I don’t recall anyone from MaidSafe weighing in on that debate yet, so I’m not sure how literally to take your statement.

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What I mean is you trade your MAID for SN Tokens, and you can’t do that twice.

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Cannot dm you, not accepting at this time.

That’s weird. Other people have been able to DM me. I’ll try sending a message to you.

Are there options to request Bittrex to add trading pairs (USD, USDT or ETH)? I’ve sent an email asking them to add it. But you’d assume there are more effective ways.

This is why I make two points below about why Maid has a good chance of not being as temporary a solution as (we all!) hope it will be:

  1. SN tokens will not make it onto existing DEXs: but that is not unusual. DEX technology all operates solely with the technology it is built on. OmniDEX for Omni coins. Uniswap for ERC20 and newer Ethereum standards, each project to their own. There are some cross chain swap projects but they have not really proven themselves AFAIK, and the SN is no plain chain project anyway so chain swaps are probably unfeasible. So If we are talking DEXs for SN tokens it will have to live on the Safe Network. How far away do you estimate decentralised execution on the Safe Network? Then stable coins variants would have to arrive on the Safe Network so there is something to actually trade against. Then localbitcoin type network would have to spring up worldwide so people can move fiat to SN tokens/SN stable coins. All of this will take time.
  1. Since FATF started throwing their weight around, I know of no traditional exchange that has listed a privacy coin as a new trading pair. Some CEXs have not unlisted the privacy coins they held before the new rules were drawn up, but many others in more “progressive” jurisdictions have. Whole counties like Japan and Korea have gone on the war path with the FATF rules purging privacy coins from their shores. Given the trajectory I suspect It is only a matter of time before they all fall in line with FATF rules, the stakes are high for FATF and they raid CEX offices with guns.

So under the possibility that no traditional exchange is willing to touch SN tokens due to FATF rules (mostly proven), and a native SN DEX and localSNToken network could be a while off (speculation), then in that future MaidSafeCoin could serve as an important hedge, liquidity conduit and bridge at least until the Safe Network has its own self contained DEX and ecosystem. The ideal flow (in my own fantasy world) would be: Maid-ERC20 can be bought on $50 billion gorilla DEX Uniswap using Ethereum and elsewhere. Maid-ERC20 is sent to a smart contract that returns SN Tokens (The same contract that is required for transition from Maid to SN anyway - adios Omni). Happy user goes off to use the SN with their new SN tokens. The reverse could possibly need to happen, maybe: SN Token to contract returns Maid-ERC20, happy user sells Maid-ERC20 for Ethereum on 50 billion DEX then to fiat on localbitcoins/CEX and uses cash to upgrade their SN node server, buy hard drives. This relationship winds down when execution, DEXs and stable coins arrive on the Safe Network.

Jim your previous comments over the years lead me to believe that you do not consider that the scenario I lay out above as likely, but from where I am standing this is the modal outcome given what is going on in decentalised space today. I’d love to hear your counterpoints on why I have the probabilities wrong, (I want to be wrong). The best although woefully underwhelming argument (not from you!) that I read the last time this was sort of discussed was along the lines of: “The SN will be self contained and we don’t need no conduit bringing in the decentralised devs and liquidity from where it currently resides”. I am all for self contained, but the stable coin and decentralised fiat bridges take time to build out.

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Any delay on our part to join the decentralized exchanges opens the doors for a Safe copy, which will grow faster, bigger, with more users…


Privacy. Security. Freedom

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If there is a lot of cash raised here, should we not get whoever did the Algorand erc20 swap quote for doing the same here? Then list wherever we want much simpler?

We could have a group to manage that project/transition and make payments etc. on completion of all or part completion payments.

Just a suggestion, but if the point of this is listings then perhaps grease the tracks with erc20 and also get onto some DEX’s. i.e. hit more targets with same effort?

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I will donate money for this :jeremy:

@Sotros25 please look at this proposal from David.


Privacy. Security. Freedom

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I’m keen to have a range of options presented and see what people think is best and where people would most like to put their money. I think the debate thats been held was great, alot of good points made. Another poll is in order on how we best spend this money in relation to the options presented during the debate. It could be erc20, paid articles, exchange listings etc. Before answering the polls we could have a discussion forum on how best to spend the money. But rather than a debate people pitch their ideas and we create a poll around those?

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Community members want to finance listings on reputable exsanges. Done! Make a new poll on the Erc20 project. I will support both. But don’t mix everything into big boul of nothing.

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Yes, monero si like a toy comapred to Safe Token, but so is BTC compared to ETH, or practically any other crypto. When dealing with anonymous crypto, the usecase for money is not speed, nor payment system. The usecase is store of value, where nobody can check what you have. And the fact, that monero is a blockchain, has huge advantage in terms of trust. Simply all I need is it save whole monero blockchain copy at one location and I can recreated whole history. But Safenetwork has only 4 copies distributed randomly. That is hell a difference. Simply blockchain will survive with much larger probability. So if the case is storing of wealth, that I want to hide, and I have 2 options, monero or Safe, and both are with comparable market cap I will pick always Monero. The only reason not to pick monero is a decline of whole blockchain technology and huge bull run in safenetwork. In that case, it is not likely monero will be able to preserve a value long term. All the other usecases, like anonymous payment systems, micro payments, etc will of course move to Safenet like infrastructure. What could be a gamechanger is wrapped anonymous token for common non anonymous crypto. Like safenet token for BTC, that can do transactions instnatly on safenetwork, anonymously etc, and the only interactio with original blockchain is, when moving token out or in to /from original crypto. We know it can work with wrapped token on ETH. I see no reason why it should not work with wrapped tokens on safenetwork. In that case, safenetwork could eat almost whole crypot market.

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Which Safe Network? We will have competition. There is no guarantee that we will be bigger and stronger. The start is important. If we slow down and isolate our network from the rest of the crypto in the beginning, a copy can overtake us…


Privacy. Security. Freedom

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Did it ever happen in blockchain crypto? As far as I know, it usually does not work. And do not forget, that in blockchain world, forks steal not only software but data too. That is not possible here.

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I’m not mixing nothing, I’m making cup cakes and you might want to calm down or you’re not getting one mate. Not everyone will support both and some people may want to split their support between projects. We should give them the option. @Dimitar are you able to do something in the ERC20 and DEX space, starting a poll and providing some explanation on how it can help us and what steps are involved? Be really keen to hear more.

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I agree with this. The poll was about funding for exchanges, nothing else. Those pledges don’t necessarily correspond to anything else.

If some in the community feel so strongly about the need for better CEX, then more power to their elbow.

If others in the community want DEX, wrapped tokens, etc, then that is something different and should be treated as such. Ofc, it could dilute efforts for the former, as folks only have so much money to go around. That could make it harder for better CEX or distract from it, etc.

Regardless, considering this has been debated to death already, I’m sure the CEX supporters have already considered other options already.

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Are you sure? Isn’t this the first time David has said a full OMNI to ERC20 swap is possible?

I have no experience in these things, other people need to get involved…


Privacy. Security. Freedom

Wasn’t talking to you

I don’t know, tbh. The whole debate feels like groundhog day. If some want better CEX (oh err, missus!), then let them at it. Maybe I’m just experiencing exchange fatigue though!

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It’s always been possible. What I see now is OMNI CEX is so hard, so expensive that perhaps if erc20 was cheap and very secure and reduced CEX listing costs then it’s worth considering. It also buys some DEX as well. So could be a wise move the reduce ongoing costs.

I don’t see this as CEX verses DEX as such, although some will frame it like that. I am just looking at a way to get on more exchanges (hopefully without paying) and perhaps with less friction.

It’s a balance, if gas fees go mental etc. but the thing is we are in a boat with many others, so level playing field.

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