Community donations requested for CEX support/maintenance

Dear community,

In the past few years I’ve been actively contributing to the project by trying to help out with exchanges, and listings in particular. With the Omni project getting less support, the delisting of MAID on Poloniex which resulted in people from the US to lose access, and increasing KYC requirements on Bittrex I decided it was time to start working on a backup plan. Together with @Sotros25 and the Maidsafe team we managed to get ourselves listed on P2PB2B, a non-KYC CEX.

As some of you are probably aware, getting these things done in cooperation with Maidsafe has been increasingly difficult due to regulations in the UK. Exchanges require a certain amount of attention, providing testing tokens for integration, a certain liquidity and volume which often is being managed by a market maker that you need to provide with enough tokens. These are things Maidsafe cannot be involved in, so last year I decided to manage it for them, which cost me thousands if not tens of thousands of dollars. I’ve happily contributed this to the project and it’s community as I was in a comfortable position to do so.

Earlier this year P2PB2B contacted me that they where going to delist omni MAID because the volume had dropped of and liquidity was too low. As some of you may remember, the omni listing did not exactly go smoothly which in my opinion resulted in a lack of trust in P2PB2B from the communities perspective. These led me to a conversation with P2PB2B about a second chance on their platform. I got them to agree to delist omni but to integrate eMAID free of charge. I’ve already provided them with eMAID for testing purposes and we’re now looking into ways to convert the remaining omni maid on their platform to eMAID so users that have not withdrawn their assets won’t lose access to it but receive the eMAID equivalent instead. However, their policy does not allow them to sent out the omni maid before they’ve received the eMAID equivalent. As some of you might be aware, omni maid has to be burned in order to mint eMAID which makes this process a bit tricky.

Last year I started my own company which required a huge investment from my part, additionally, I’ve been working for free for the last year. This, in combination with the out of pocket costs I had maintaining the exchanges, resulted in me burning through my holdings at a rapid pace. I’m not longer in a position where I can upfront the 76k MAID required to make the swap with P2PB2B, or where I can continue to pay for transaction cost/testing tokens/marketmaking myself. and even if I had, I think that it’s unhealthy for an individual to carry this burden. I’ve already spoken with the Maidsafe team and some community members and mentioned that if someone doesn’t step up soon, P2PB2B will simply delist omni MAID without the eMAID listing resulting in people losing access to their funds if they’ve failed to withdraw from P2PB2B’s platform in time. Given our history with exchanges, I will do everything in my power to prevent this from happening, but I’m now turning to the community to help me support exchange requests.

I’m sure most of you are already aware of the importance of accessibility of our token on multiple exchanges but I would like to emphasize that P2PB2B is an important player here, even though not the triple A exchange we’re hoping for. With it’s low trading fee (0.2% instead of Bittrex’s 0.75%), accessibility to the US market and being non-KYC it does a lot of things right when it comes to things our community values. Additionally, P2PB2B has been great when it comes to communication as I’m in touch with them on a daily basis and they’re willing to look for options to make sure that omni MAID/eMAID do not lose access to CEX’s as there are signs of a potential Bittrex delisting too. Last but not least, I know some if not most of you here are against CEX’s and all for DEX’s. Even though I see where you are coming from, DEX’s do have their flaws in terms of liquidity providing, accessibility for less wealthy people or people less familiar with the crypto space. I see hard work is being put into DEX listings and providing liquidity to the pools and I can’t emphasize enough how much it’s appreciated. The work those guys put in to make that happen allows me to fully focus on CEX listings & maintaining them, which could eventually lead to higher tiered listings if done right.

I’m turning to the community for support in my journey of supporting CEX’s and P2PB2B’s transition from omni to eMAID in particular. If you’re in a situation where you can and are willing to contribute I’ve opened up 2 donations addresses:

BTC / omni MAID: No longer available
ETH / eMAID: No longer available

I hope to see enough donations to at least make the omni/eMAID swap happen and cover some of my out of pocket. Rest assured that any donation made will be 100% used for eMAID adoption on exchanges (and omni maid yto some extent if required) and maintaining these listings. I will continue to invest my time and money (where I can) to help progress the project as I, like all of you, have the project best interest at heart.

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Thank you for all the hard work you’ve been putting into this, @Mightyfool! I know how much you’ve poured of your own time, sweat, and funds into supporting this project. I sincerely hope that we’ll see the community rally to support keeping MAID listed.

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@Mightyfool
Just my 2 cents for donating less than 2 cents

MAID would be more fun for many on Stellar and www.stellarx.com :sweat_smile:

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Disclaimer From the Forum Team: please do a research on the risks of centralized exchanges. You can see a brief history of the community’s experience with them here. You can see a decentralized alternative exchange here

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Thanks for the contribution, really appreciate it!

I’m personally not familiar with StellarX, giving it a quick look makes it look like integration there is more familiar with DEX’s than a CEX. I will look into it more today, but I think there are far more sophisticated people here on the forum when it comes to asset integration on platforms like these.

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Maidsafe trading is now disabled on P2PB2B in preparation for the upcoming eMAID listing. Users that had MAID on their platform after the withdrawal deadline will receive the eMAID equivalent back. Thanks to the contributors making this possible. I’m hoping to see more people, especially those who value CEX accessibility, donate to make sure we can continue to work with exchanges and truly make our token accessible for everyone. Right now we’re counting on very few individuals within our community carrying the burden for everyone, it would be great (and fair) to see this become a community effort.

Over the next few weeks I will be working with P2PB2B to make sure there will be liquidity and volume on the pairs as this is required for API enabling which sites like Coingecko and Coinmarketcap use. Once live, I will ask P2PB2B to notify these trackers of the new pair and we they should appear within a few days. I cannot emphasise the importance of liquidity and volume enough. Not only does it help users unfamiliar with P2PB2B to quickly make a trade and secure there funds by withdrawing, it also helps when it comes to discussing a potential listing on higher tiered exchanges. There are currently ongoing talks to lower eMAID’s withdrawal fee but I can’t make any promises on this yet.

After reading back my own topic I do feel it’s important to note that Maidsafe has not asked me, or any community member involved to initiate this initiative. Maidsafe has always mentioned they cannot and do not want to be involved in any activities that may jeopardise the long term health of the project with their involvement. Setting up these donation addresses is my own initiative after extensive talks with @Sotros25 about how we should manage the exchanges going forward. We (community) can now contribute to the project without any limitations. This is, in my opinion, extremely valuable.

Once again, if you value / use CEX’s, please consider donating and don’t just leave this burden to the same whales within our community over and over. There are ongoing costs, risks & time investments required to have a healthy relationship with these exchanges which will be vital for future listings.

BTC / omni MAID: 37MprQu4rbdfwPHmx2pwyn2emJyNMazmQA
ETH / eMAID: 0xcCAA2B9492c9Dde2734e02eCD7569F2f1093D433

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I’m very happy to inform everyone that eMAID trading is now live on P2PB2B: EMAID\BTC | Trade EMAID to BTC on cryptocurrency exchange P2PB2B

A big shoutout to everyone that contributed making this possible.

A quick highlight of what happend and what’s next. All remaining omni MAID on P2PB2B have been converted to eMAID, users that had omni maid on P2PB2B should now have the eMAID equivelant in their account. The withdrawal fee is set in USDT (their platform standard) and requires $20. Personally I feel this is on the high end of what exchanges charge, but given the fact that Kraken charges the same amount I decided to leave it for now. Rest assured though, I’m in constant touch with P2PB2B, if I see an opportunity to have this lowered I will get it done. Please do keep in mind that P2PB2B has a 0.2% trading fee (compared to 0.75% on Bittrex), this adds up real quick.

Next up I will be informing tracker website so the trading pairs will show up on websites like CoinMarketCap (I’ll make sure Uniswap will be tracked too). In order to keep the API active, which these trackers use, I will be filling up the order book from time to time and make sure we have the minimum volume required. For now I don’t have the assets to fill both BTC/ETH and USDT trading pairs so ETH and USDT pairs have been disabled, I can have these enabled if enough donations / traders on P2PB2B come in, so please consider contributing in some way.

Once again, thank you all who contributed so far, this could not have happend without you.

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Thank you!! You’re doing amazing work. This is a lot for an individual to take on their shoulders. I hope you’ll see an outpouring of support from the community.

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Dear community

I wanted to give you guys another update on what has happend over the last few weeks.

I’ve had extensive conversations with Coingecko, getting both eMAID and MAID listed on their platform. Coingecko informed me this morning that the listing of eMAID has been processed and that MAID is currently in progress. They’ve also mentioned that, when both pages are live, they can add something to the page that mentions these assets are linked together. However, Coingecko has also mentioned that due to lack of volume and liquidity on the asset, eMAID is currently in a disabled state, therefore not showing up on their website.

I’ve had the same discussion about volume and liquidity with P2PB2B where they’ve raised valid concern about the volume on their platform. Honestly, I’ve been quite discouraged to continue managing the exchange as it continues to be an expense of which I’m carrying the burden. Especially since not many people use P2PB2B yet (can’t blame anyone as most are probably looking at CMC/Coingecko for the trading pairs), I’m paying twice the trading fee as I’m on both sides of the trade.

Even though I continue to feel I’m jeopardising my own financial stability, I also feel having liquidity, volume and visibility on tracking sites is absolutely vital for eMAID to succeed. Therefore, I have added additional liquidity to P2PB2B and have a volume support bot running for the next 2 months. This should secure eMAID becoming visible again on Coingecko and hopefully CMC too as well as allowing people to enter and exit the market more easily. The cost for making this happen are well into the thousands again so I really do hope there will be community support for this one way or another, otherwise after these 2 months I will be forced to cease all activities when it comes to exchange support.

I would like to take this time to thank everyone for the kind words over the last few weeks, even though I haven’t responded to all of them please do know they are very much appreciated.

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If we get there, you can always put liquidity in UniSwap - there you are the exchange! And you earn all the fees! There are currently two people who provide liquidity there:

https://app.uniswap.org/#/pool/238657?chain=mainnet

https://app.uniswap.org/#/pool/238941?chain=mainnet


Privacy. Security. Freedom

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There are several reasons why I don’t believe in just having DEX’s to be honest, I can explain in a bit more detail below.

The nature of DEX’s are to have organic, peer to peer trades. There are incentives for people to provide liquidity there, however, there are no incentives to provide volume. When you talk about just trading, especially for people with larger holders (I’ll get into that in the next paragraph), DEX’s are great and it could work if the community is already large as multiple trades will happen a day. For smaller projects, DEX’s will just appear close to dead. As you’ve seen recently, our Uniswap pool has been unused for over a week. Additionally, we’re one of the few projects in the space that don’t have an organic volume by miners pressuring the market, again resulting in lower volume.

The crypto market is still in a immature state, and most of the crypto users don’t know how DEX’s work (I’ve been in the space for quite a while and even I’m unsure how and if I should use it). Additionally, most of the users in the market are people that purchase smaller positions. These users often don’t have hardware wallets and rely on storing coins on the exchange to quickly enter and exit positions where needed. I’m not saying that is a smart thing to do, but it is how most users operate within the space still.

As mentioned above, tracking sites like Coinmarketcap and Coingecko require certain volume in the market, on a daily basis. Who is going to market smash a $3000+ order every day for eMAID to become visible? It will become quite expensive real quick, with an incredibly bad looking chart. Crypto portfolio apps is what most people use to track the value of their positions, if the asset isn’t tracked, people will move on to different assets that can be tracked. Unless they’re in it for the tech, their ideals and believes like us. But let’s be honest, we’re a niche, and if we ever wasn’t adoption to grow, we have to target a way bigger audience than that.

Last but not least, bigger exchanges are moving more and more into the area where free listings happen but projects need to have a massive organic traffic, or come with a marketmaker and liquidity provider. They will look at project track records over the last several months. Just having a DEX with nearly no volume is an absolute no-go for any of them. Again, I don’t have anything against DEX’s, if any I’m massively for them, but I do think it’s essential for them to co-exist. P2PB2B is a great stepping stone to better exchanges. Exchanges I’m (and I know Soton has too) already in touch with, but we have to check all the boxes and I can’t check all of them myself, not for an extended period of time at least.

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I agree with what you say and that is why I pointed out that if after 2 months you have to withdraw your liquidity from P2PB2B you can move part of it to UniSwap by providing even one-sided liquidity:


Privacy. Security. Freedom

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Thank you for continuing to go above and beyond, @Mightyfool. If in 2 months the community hasn’t rallied to support increasing liquidity / market-making, then I could not in good conscience advise you to continue providing either—particularly if the project has not made any significant advances.

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Thanks for putting your position out this way. The more exact you are about your expenses, the more I think about if I could chip in. Though at the moment I am bit in a catch-22 position, as my financial situation is almost equal to price of e/MAID. Meaning that to be able to help, I would need money from higher priced MAID, but if that happens, the problem would likely be solved by those same circumstances… Anyway, I hear you, and consider my view again.

And half joking, half sincerely… two months… that’s quite an achievement in itself, to have a timeline at least somewhere inside this project, you know :beers:

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I rarely post in coin/cash topics and as we know MaidSafe does not get involved in many aspects of cryptocurrency as it is unclear in UK law what involvement is possible. However, I feel we must make things clear to everyone and therefore…

@Mightyfool as discussed, please stop contacting XYZ on our behalf (as MaidSafe), we never requested or condoned this. It is causing problems. We are in touch with CoinGecko to correct the listing issues.

Many thanks, we appreciate any good work done by everybody, and we are a stronger community for it, but there is confusion with exchanges and listing sites now in terms of who they are talking to and also should they continue to list omni MAID. That is not in the interests of holders to be forced into any action that may cause them tax issues. We must respect everyone here and that means omni MAID and eMaid holders.

The work the community has done with erc20 is outstanding and appreciated by everyone, but we cannot force anyone to swap, and we cannot afford confusion in the marketplace. It’s too dangerous and we must be 100% solid open and be careful to avoid any possible misrepresentation or perceived coercion.

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I’ve backspaced so many of my lines already, you wouldn’t believe. I’m going to be the bigger man here and respond to just one thing. I’ll keep the other conversations behind closed doors, because I don’t think it will benefit Maidsafe, the project or the community one bit to do it public.

It is just outrageous and I can’t believe you’re making this public statement without having your fact straight. Sorry David, I’ve had nothing but appreciation for you and the team for so long, but what’s happening at the moment, in particular in the private conversations between me and Jim, is just pathetic really.

I have NEVER contacted anyone on Maidsafe’s behalf, and I have NEVER pretended to be an official Maidsafe representative in any way and I absolutely do not appreciate you coming in here accusing me of it.

The reason there is an issue with Coingecko is because the lack of communication from Maidsafe, do not put that on anyone other than the Maidsafe team. Several weeks if not months after eMAID went live, nobody from the Maidsafe team informed Coingecko or Coinmarketcap of it. There has been confusion because someone outside the Maidsafe team submitted a form that requested an update of the current MAID token to eMAID, instead of applying for a new listing. Therefore, MAID got changed and the API altcoinomy used got disabled because the lack of volume and liquidity on eMAID. Even though it’s an error that shouldn’t have been made, it’s an error that occurred that Maidsafe could’ve prevented by informing CMC/Coingecko themselves in the first place. I’ve been actively working to get eMAID visible asap, burning through my own funds to make it happen, to prevent the altcoinomy onboarding process being blocked for much longer. Which btw, I’ve received back from earlier this morning that it’s now back up and running and people can convert their assets to eMAID once again (Which at the moment I would still advice against to be completely honest). Additionally my focus has been on getting the omni MAID market back online as soon as possible too as I am well aware of the importance of it.

I’m urging you to stop any false accusations or to discuss this in public because this can turn ugly real quick and I’m not planning on giving up even a little part of my reputation because of it.

Dear community,

The last few days I’ve been reflecting on my contributions to project and its community. I’ve spend the last 2 years actively trying to contribute to the project and I believe with many successes. Even though it was never easy, I’ve always felt appreciated and supported.

With my company taking up more and more of my time, in combination with the recent arguments I’ve had with team members I’ve decided it’s time for me to lay down all of my activities. Earlier this week I’ve withdrawn all liquidity from P2PB2B and stopped providing volume support. Additionally I’ve handed over my conversations with Coingecko to have both MAID and eMAID listed on their platform to Jim.

Even though this has not been an easy decision, I’m confident it’s the right one. I’ve taken down the initial donation addresses as I would not want anyone to donate to a cause that will no longer be active.

I really do hope that Maidsafe will take better care of their community members going forward, especially those that put blood, sweat & tears into increasing their chances of succeeding. Even though Maidsafe never asked me to do any of this, I still feel showing some gratitude would’ve been appropriate. Unfortunately I’m not the only contributing community member that feels the lack thereof.

My activity on the forum will cut back drastically going forward and I wouldn’t be surprised if this will be my last post. I wish everyone the best & will continue to root for Maidsafe to succeed, I’m confident they will pull it off.

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Focusing on your project sounds like the best bet at the moment. We do appreciate the effort put forth that we have seen.

No comment on private discussions as there are always two sides and it’s best to just avoid drama anyhow.

Hope you stick around and glad you are positive enough to not sour on a good cause. Best of luck to you @Mightyfool

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Thanks for your contribution.

Listing is highly related with legal area, that is hard point for team and community both. But let’s wait some more. The things are rapidly changing after launching full function testnet.

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