Clann (a self-governance platform, founded upon anarchist non-hierarchical principles)

I’ll be digging in more later but looks like some fantastic and empowering FOSS!!! :smiley: looking forward to it.

Correct me if I’m wrong but I see voluntary governance and programs as a form of socio-anarchism.

2 Likes

Hi lubinew,

I use the term anarchism as it was originally conceived: libertarian-communist.

In my opinion, capitalism is an inherently hierarchical system and the biggest pyramid scheme in operation. I struggle to understand the difference between ancap philosophy and the status-quo we inhabit now. How do ancaps propose to resolve disputes without any democracy? As far as I understand it, it would necessitate private armies and police forces.

I don’t think these type of institutions should be financially motivated but instead under the control of the people they’re supposed to represent. Members of security type organisations should live within the area they serve, so their service always reflects the service they themselves want to receive. Democratic oversight being the best measure of community control we have over such matters.

I do understand your concerns about democracy however and I’d never want to discourage individualism. Everyone will be welcome to use and shape the platform how they see fit.

Thanks for the feedback.

1 Like

Cheers Nigel!

Socio-anarchism is a new one on me, but basically I think people need to differentiate resources that are communal from those personal. Index values and allocation of communal resources should be democratically decided by an assembly, with personal resources open to a free-market.

1 Like

Have you a way to prevent someone from having multiple identities? This to me seems a fundamental issue since your local thug/scammer/politician could load themselves up with multiple identities in order to have a measure of control.

Also how will minority groups be protected from the majority who could effectively kill them off by denying them basic services. For example the disabled, the chronically sick, ethnic group and so on. This is a problem we have with the current democracy systems where the rich are catered for immediately and the poor and minority groups take decades and even centuries to be catered for and dying an early death after a miserable life for the most part (until change happens).

4 Likes

It is certainly a fundamental issue and I’ve so far decided just to leave it open to all possibilities; a delegated admin council will handle it, and if corrupt they will need to be voted out by consensus. They could just rely on passports and picture IDs like we do now, or use methods like the voice passwords discussed on here. This is an area I’m constantly researching and thinking about. Reputations will be majorly important and obviously transparency at every level possible. In terms of other non-hierarchical structuring, optional rotational roles and the like will be used.

In regards to rationing, there’s only so much I can influence. I’m hopeful that helping to provide a procedural means to cater for everybody, along with truly representative democratic voting, not so influenced by financial interests, will be enough to allow ordinary people to implement constitutions that protect the rights of the most vulnerable. I have faith enough in humanity as a whole that given a true political choice the ideology that will spread will be somewhat socialist, and the application is designed to encourage that direction.

3 Likes

2 posts were split to a new topic: Discussions about political systems

Great! But the name Clann in the states (if relevant) might be a hard sell because of “Klan.”

2 Likes

I think it would be great to be able to live life by the NAP. Whatever ism people want to give their take on that is fine, just as long as forced subscription isn’t a prerequisite.

3 Likes

Yes Warren, I had considered that but am hopeful the word can be reclaimed.

Voluntary subscription is what this app is all about. I also don’t like to be labelled and my political opinions to be neatly packaged into some box. The only label I want to promote is non-hierarchical.

5 Likes

Clann, you’ve reminded me of an old “starfish” organization resource I came across once, and haven’t seen since.

This may interest you: Starfish & the Spider

A non-hierarchical, voluntary, association. Perhaps Decorum will solve some of the needs.

1 Like

:joy:. Anarchists are children.

1 Like

Hence why I chose the name.

Forgive my cynicism, but when has history ever shown people to not be selfish, and to not push their own self interest? This is the fundamental problem I see in any such system promoting direct democracy. With the onset of social media, we have seen the affects of such a system without it even being implemented at the level of a “government”. Mob mentality and misinformation runs rampant through society. Ideological clashes will certainly result in the oppression of the minority. We see this in the US bubbling up the past few years with ideologically opposed sides calling each other evil, Nazis, etc. with true fervor. This is what leads to a genocide, or suppression of thought if given the chance.

1 Like

Show me one modern day civilisation where Anarchists run the show? Hell, I’ll go a step further why don’t anarchists who enjoy the spoils of modern society move to the middle of nowhere and build their own anarchist territory, the beauty is they don’t need anything to set it up?

:joy:

1 Like

Anarchists running something: isn’t that contradictory?
Edit: joking aside, there are some interesting ideas, like here.

2 Likes

Got one @goindeep (where they run the show)

Cherán, Mexico, 20,000 inhabitants.
The Mexican Town That Kicked Out Politicians And Started Over

No Police.
No Government.
No Crime (so they claim)
I found it pretty interesting.

5 Likes

We have to get to the root of these problems. There has been 2 world wars in the century before social media ever was invented, just to put things into perspective. I do agree that mob mentality and misinformation runs rampant through society but it was not caused by social media. It’s due to a monetary and class hierarchy that divides society at every opportunity and purposely dumbs down the masses. The propaganda spewed around-the-clock by the world’s major media outlets, working hand-in-hand, is far more culpable for our divisive, emotionally charged politics. In a world 99% are ruled by 1%, the root of the problem can hardly be direct-democracy.

The resolution has to come from changing these monetary and political structures that dominate society and intentionally subvert the truth. So that criminality isn’t directly programmed into reality and an essential part of its design; and our value systems reflect those principles we want echoed out into the wider world.

1 Like

People get far too caught up in the details. The NAP is what it says - a principle to not use aggression to get what you want. We teach this to our children and it is the foundation of our legal system. There is nothing childish about that.

What is childish, is taking what is not yours under threats of violence. It is what children do until theh learn it is not acceptable. Children are too immature to understand the repercussions of their actions and may find it difficult to negotiate for similar reasons. Adults, on the other hand, have little excuse for this - they should know better.

There are lots of things that were never invented or used in the past. It is also very easy to centralise and manage from the top. That doesn’t mean it is desirable or the only way forward. Many of us are here watching this project for this very reason.

Take a principle and see where it leads. See what challenges it presents and work to rise to them. That is all we can do.

11 Likes

That looks like a terrible place to live.

It still has state and federal funding and they still have crime and their own laws, nice try bro.

No one is taking “Anarchists” seriously. Grow up (not you,
“anarchists”).

So the adult decision is to hand over all your authority to somebody else?

You’d be happier to live in a place run by ruthless drug cartels??

It’s clear you don’t even understand anarchism if you think it has no laws.

1 Like