Chips we can trust

Continuing the discussion from Intel chipsets probably compromised. How does this affect to Safe network?:

@happybeing This I believe is the likely reason Russia is taking such a hard stance against crypo currencies. Not until Russia controls the manufacturing of chips used by its population will it embrace the crypto currency revolution.

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I think there’s probably more to Putin’s stance on cryptocurrency, but it certainly does explain why they’ve switched from using computers to typewriters. That sounded like an over-reaction to the Snowden files at the time, but now it sounds like the only way to prevent malware type spying!

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It sounds like they are a way off really though,apparently due to small scale production, previous efforts worked out being expensive ($3000 computers). It is all heavily backed and designed for the defense industry too, so probably more back doors than B & Q.
I didn’t realise such a monopoly situation existed, or how it’s even been allowed to continue to exist - surely somebody else can make these things or modify them or something…aaaarrrrgh…
I knew there was a simple remedy to combat the USA adopting Cold War style spying techniques - buy Russian Computers…brilliant. :smiley:

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Al_Kafir I knew there was a simple remedy to combat the USA adopting Cold War style spying techniques - buy Russian Computers…brilliant. smiley

That would be hilarious.

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I know, I was just recognising the irony in the possible solution…this is actually not a bad solution though (at least theoretically) when you think about it. If the Open -Source/post Snowden community made it a general policy to only use Computers with foreign chips inside, then we know this will backfire on those wanting to spy on their own citizens. Eventually all Govts would throw the towel in and agree to have clean chips…maybe :smiley:
Corporations and Govts would be free to continue to spy on each other to their heart’s content or not.

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Why would Russia want crypto currency at all? As for their cyber capabilities while they may not be as sophisticated as some other countries I doubt they are concerned about cryptocurrencies.

On manufacturing you’re exactly right but I heard they switched back to typewriters specifically because they don’t trust their electronics. In a way the Snowden leaks helped them to improve their security practices:

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/jul/11/russia-reverts-paper-nsa-leaks

I don’t think any country trusts chips that they don’t make. Even in the USA we cannot trust our chips because most chips aren’t made in trusted foundries.

It isn’t an over-reaction at all but I am surprised they waited for Snowden to leak. Maybe it was a top secret that certain American companies couldn’t be trusted but why would you trust a foreign company to make your chips and then encrypt your top secrets with those chips?

And regardless of what government decide to do we still cannot trust any of the chips. If Russia makes the next gen chips we’d be spied on from Russia so it’s not like you gain much by using Russian chips or US chips, or Chinese chips.

The only answer is to use a chip made by your own community.

There isn’t exactly a monopoly. It’s more that Windows runs mostly on x86 so now everyone uses x86. You don’t have to run Windows and if you do run Windows (or any closed source software) the software itself could be backdoored by default.

If you run Windows on a Russian or Chinese made chip then it could have a double or triple back door. In fact I think it’s probably something like that where you never know who can get into your hardware or software.

As for cryptocurrencies since most are just software solutions anyone can get into them. I don’t think Russia, China or the US government see the current breed of crypto as a threat but I do think China and Russia ban it because they don’t have as much expertise to deal with it if it becomes an arms race (which it already is).

At this point in time China and Russia are still trying to figure out what the blockchain tech is and how it works. Sooner or later they’ll have caught up and all computers could end up being undetectably bugged by governments.

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@Al_Kafir or do the states start swapping back doors. Russian chips will have Russian back doors? The best way for Russia to proceed is to become completely transparent. Sometimes one can see a checkmate coming many moves away but can’t stop it from happening, I think true transparency once widespread will always trump secrecy. And its funny in a way Intel has made the world transparent!

But its curious, is Russia not in a position to use Intel’s sloppy backdoor to get at Intel’s trade secrets? Or does Intel have some clean chips for its internal use somewhere. Maybe clean chips and more importantly how to verify them will be the next secret to be leaked.

The deeper implication is why did Intel sabotage the world with a huge sloppy back door. The other implication is Intel may have been sharing this sloppy backdoor with the whole governmental world in exchange for monopoly status? But that seems less likely it seems like they set up the world for a fall intentionally. Its not just that the US set up the world for cybergeddon, its that it seems to have spread the keys around for people to find. No wonder all this BS about cyber war. Russia it would seem is in a position to take Intel’s IP and do what they want with it. Do we have a “terrorist” tech company? Hate the word terrorist by the way. What so called ‘rights’ of a multinational corporation would be enforceable in light of this against a state supposedly taking steps to protect its citizens reverse the damage when it was paying all along for the damage. Suppose Russia started selling competitor clones of Intel’s chips, is Intel and the US going to whine in the medial when all Russia has to shout in the highest bidder media is take a look at your in Intel property its intentionally dirty! Its sounds lake tapping a loaded gun and a set of keys to all the doors of a home next to all the windows of the home on the exterior of the home.

But this also fits in with the spooky stuff David Irvine was talking about with the prime number math underlying all standard cryptography being rapidly eroded by seemingly quick advances in algebraic proofs and theorems, which apparently David Irvine saw enough of the writing on the wall to take SAFE in a somewhat different direction.

I’d like to know how much clean custom hardware designed from the ground up would speed up the SAFE network.

There is one most spooky possibility of all that would unfortunately make sense of this stuff. One world government has already taken hold quite solidly and it is malevolent as expected. Was it Intel chips that helped screw with some the Iranian centrifuges? One would think this would have implications for all the tax evaders with money in Caymans. Maybe some bs secret law helps explain why the FBI director did so much entitled whining when Apple decided to increase the security of its phones?

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Not all crypto is based on prime numbers fortunately but RSA is and it’s what PGP is based on.

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Crypto currency and the blockchain tech is here to stay, it provides a trustless system that greases the wheels of commerce like nothing else before. Any country that ignores blockchain and peer to peer tech will fail on many levels. I believe without doubt the Russians, Chinese and every other superpower is at some level trying to understand how they can control or at the very least manipulate this technology.

You mean stops monopolist supression of useful tech and allows for a level playing field.?

They’ve already figured out how to control the technology. They control the smart people who make the technology.

I highly doubt governments are worried about Bitcoin or any other technology. If they wanted to they could have all the key developers arrested and replaced with government friendly developers. They’d be able to get developers on anything from tax evasion to made up offenses.

I think Russia and China are just playing for time because the bright minds in their country haven’t wrapped their heads around it yet.

It does seem that BTC is becoming co-opted in as much as the centralization of mining is inevitable. But I have seen little convincing evidence that other crypto-currencies like BTSX or NXT or even Dash have been controlled by any agency or corporation. If you have evidence of this I am sincerely interested in being enlightened.

@luckybit makes such firm statements with such confidence I don’t really feel I’d be engaging in a discussion if I replied to them. It seems he is merely here to notify us. :wink:

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It’s obvious that the government has a lot of power. I’m not the only person who knows that.

The IRS will notify the people who think the government doesn’t have power, or the DEA, or the FBI, it’s not really up to me. I just know to pay my taxes and not break the law.

Obama recently just put out an executive order on April 1st. It gives the government the power to take possession of anyone’s digital property if the government feels it endangers national or financial security. That ultimately puts constraints on all participants in this space.

The NSA has some of the best minds in cryptography. Since they have the top cryptogrpahers and some of the top minds in the country I don’t think they’d have any problem hacking any of us if they should choose and then you have China, and other countries who have top minds working for their governments too.

They don’t directly control people. They control people through the IRS/SEC/regulations/lawyer fees.

If you don’t pay the IRS then you go to jail. So every developer including Bitshares, NXT, and Dash, all pay the IRS or else. This means the government gets some benefit out of everything anyone is doing.

You could call it a protection racket if you don’t believe in taxes and if you do believe in taxes then it’s your patriotic duty to pay it but in either case you’re compelled to comply with the IRS.

And that isn’t all. People who don’t comply could simply never be able to get rich. This isn’t to say you wont be able to write software or do projects but the government has enough power to determine who gets rich and who doesn’t.

What about in other countries? It’s probably just as bad or worse in other countries. So when I say governments can control the developers it’s true because governments control the fiat money which is what controls everything in every industry including Bitcoin. Bitcoin has value but it’s not independent from fiat or from taxes.

I use to think that as well. But then I learned about the likes of Jacob Applebaum. I would not assume anymore that the best minds have been co-opted because I believe the best minds cannot be co-opted.

You should look at Google scholar, patents, and the words of people involved in cryptography. Part of the reason certain experts accepted certain encryption standards are because the NSA has a near monopoly on the brain power in cryptography.

Amateur cryptographers could be okay but they cannot compare to NSA cryptographers who have practically unlimited budgets, with the best labs, access to the best schools, all the resources of other top minds from other countries.

Do you really think some hackers or cryptoanarchists can outsmart the top cryptographers in the world who happen to work for governments?

Many of the developers in the platforms mentioned do not live in the US. Please dig a bit deeper before making blanket statements. Do not feel bad, it is easy miss the nuances of reality and over simplify for the sake of argument. I have been guilty of that plenty in my life as well. cheers

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