CCP and what involvement has Maidsafe Asia with it

Unfortunately and I hope I’m wrong, but I think it may be the other guys who were on the stage with Maidsafe Asia running a P and D scheme. I was pretty concerned when I looked into the CCP guys. I thought to myself that this has got to be the absolute worst marketing strategy possible. It appeared to me that they had taken the concept of Safecoin and made it as scammy and ponzi scheme sounding as possible.
My main concern would be Maidsafe being one step away and profitting from (via Maidsafe Asia) a P and D in its own coin - can you imagine the fallout…
Anyway, as I say, I hope I’m wrong, but whatever the case, I don’t like the cut of these guys’ jib…
https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=1731992.0

2 Likes

I haven’t dug very deep, but obviously coinpayments.net is an impressive and legit company. They were the first ever multi coin processor in 2013 and they appear to be doing ok and working with thousands of merchants.

I agree that Centcoin malarkey looks weak and is a big turn off, but I wouldn’t rush to judge them yet either. It’s still very early days and there’s some serious and legitimate business there.

I am keen to see how it pans out though, I guess we’ll just have to wait and see what they end up spending their time and energy on. I don’t doubt this community will be appropriately up in arms if they don’t live up to the standards we expect, so I’m not worried myself. I also don’t think David and Nick would be so easily duped by P&D’ers; not with their precious baby’s fate at stake. :wink:

1 Like

Yea I must say the coinpayemnts guys are first class actually. We had a few good laughs with them and they are really strong SAFE supporters. Neither them nor maidsafe have any part of the video or ccp, although I met some ccp people as well and again really nice really strong SAFE supporters, but we did tell them (as did coinpayments) that neither company could be involved with or promote any investment scheme as it’s too dangerous to understand all the legalities in so many countries, plus our guys would not be very pleased.

We did have to remove ourselves from an event that got close to investment scheme type chat. We made a pretty strong delineation case, not judging their plans at all as that would be us stepping over a line into some unknown territory, unless there was any confusion or impropriety for the Asian audience. I continually do remind myself not to judge with our standards, but do use our levels of compassion etc… There is an awful lot of great SAFE supporters over there and they would not appreciate us slighting them from a moral high ground, so care is of course something we also consider, but these people are not on trial in my eyes anyway.

Anyway there will be a ton of such things and especially in Asia as the market is huge and the opportunities for people are equally as huge, this is why we have no board seat/presence on any of the partner companies we are trying to work with. It’s their country, their jurisdiction and their choice. We don’t judge unless there is some unlawfulness or similar where we would have no choice.

Again though, and @whiteoutmashups will also have met many of these people, we need to be thanking and helping them as they are working insanely hard. I am not sure of CCP coins etc. I just don’t know. If they were doing something poor then we would chat with them about it for sure, but right now, launch stuff and no distractions for me anyway :wink:

Again though, coinpayments guys are folk you do want to have a beer with (but not vodka :wink: )

17 Likes

That’s good to hear! Following your trip, I decided to begin using their wallet and I couldn’t be happier. Nice, easy to use interface and for those people who want an extra level of security without going the paper wallet route, they offer a vault function.

3 Likes

Yes when I was there I was really touched to see such genuine guys who really want to help SAFE however they can, with whatever they have. We had long chats about what SAFE could mean for their countries, in terms of govt, people, business, etc, and really meaningful discussions about decentralization. There is definitely a lack of faith in centralized institutions in every country. These people aren’t in it for some cheap ponzi scheme, they are in it for the long haul and know that SAFE Net is the #1 way for their countries to evolve out of the many systematic problems being faced right now.

People from Shanghai, Japan, Korea, Malaysia, Indonesia, Canada etc, who have all learned what they can about crypto, ethereum, btc etc and have come to the conclusion (as I have) that SAFE is the only real way forward to a free and exciting world to live in :slight_smile: That video you posted looks fine though it’s literally like 30sec of logos. Nothing malicious there to me :stuck_out_tongue: I’m not sure what CCP is but it sounds like a smaller / new venture. At least when I was there, the main groups were Coinpayments and a marketing firm / SAFE Net hedgefund, so those are the two that I think are taking the lead with the MaidSafe Asia / Solutions effort.

But I didn’t meet anyone whose character I questioned for even a second. I felt like I was meeting people with the same passion for SAFE that I have, which is very rare and special. Also great and funny guys who made the short trip very fun :slight_smile: Still keeping in touch and working on many projects with them, NONE of which are P&D-ish and all are just to broaden the global developer base for SAFE.

9 Likes

Yes, my concerns were around CCP, not coinpayments or Maidsafe Asia.[quote=“Jabba, post:1369, topic:9923”]
I also don’t think David and Nick would be so easily duped by P&D’ers; not with their precious baby’s fate at stake.
[/quote]

It’s not a case of David and Nick being duped by P +Ders, as David says, their dealings are with Maidsafe Asia and not CCP. It has also been acknowledged (correct me if I’m wrong) that CCp are running an “investment scheme”. I linked to the nature of that scheme.[quote=“dirvine, post:1370, topic:9923”]
although I met some ccp people as well and again really nice really strong SAFE supporters, but we did tell them (as did coinpayments) that neither company could be involved with or promote any investment scheme as it’s too dangerous to understand all the legalities in so many countries, plus our guys would not be very pleased.
[/quote]

Doesn’t look like that advise has been heeded:

"CCP has formed a strategic alliance with 2 other notable players in the Fintech industry Coinpayments and Maidsafe."
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19XlNooStIICs6YiTrHyr8RXtNeps_XITmBy5Zb1YTBE/edit

This page is now apparently in “trash”

I’m not grasping in which way CCP are supporting Safe other than possibly pumping the price?
Maidsafe’s positions appear to be:

  1. Many companies whether operating in a legal/morally acceptable manner will be building things on Safenet - it is not their responsibility to police such companies.

I accept this reasoning, however CCP are operating now, not on Safenet, nor does their “investment scheme” rely on building anything on Safenet.

2.Maidsafe should not make moral judgements, CCP are not on trial and care should be taken not to slight operators of these kind of “investment schemes”
.
My view is different. IF this scheme is indeed a case of collecting others’ money in order to manipulate the market and state that the price can only go up not down, then I personally object on moral and legal grounds. Nothing appears to need to be built on Safenet and I don’t see it as contributing anything to the standing of the project whatsoever, so have no qualms with slighting anybody running such schemes.

Of course, however they are operating globally, so what potential issues could come up with such a group operating on Poloniex for example? Are there any? Apart from the obvious ones of manipulating the market to their own benefit and stopping any potential investors from getting a true picture of market demand and putting others off from entering such a heavily manipulated market I mean.

I’m just wondering what would constitute “poor” , given its none of the above? How would we find out given that we don’t want to slight, or make judgements and the opinion is that it’s their jurisdiction and their choice. What would the chat be about?

Anyway, like I say, I hope I’m wrong, but even if I’m right, Maidsafe appear to have no issues with it, so I’m worrying about nothing…right?

Edit:
Correction : CCP do state they intend to build their coin on Safenet, however the investment scheme does not appear to rely on this. The document, stating a strategic alliance with Maidsafe was first linked to Dec 2016.

2 Likes

MaidSafe Asia position that kind of video is a total disaster wtf is that? it looks like a scam ponzy scheme… it’s outrageous. You should ask them for removing this video immediately. it as nothing to do with what safe is doing and shouldn’t be associate in any way with that

1 Like

Spot on @Wallet111. My main concern now, is that on reading the literature CCP has all the hallmarks of a ponzi scheme to me. My fear is that it is possible the idea is to pump the price then exit at some point.
This in my view would be a marketing disaster for the project, if it turns out that Maidsafe flew half way around the world to share a stage with Fred Ponzi. Obviously it would also be disastrous for potential investors who will now have to pay more only to lose all when the exit happens.
As I say I hope I’m totally wrong and misguided in my assessment and would be ecstatically happy to be shown why.

1 Like

WTF

All these guys are doing is getting developers on SAFE. They were asking me about SAFE incubators, ICOs and stuff like that. Long term projects, that require SAFE.

None of them are trying to do what you’re saying

4 Likes

This is CCP you’re on about? If so, thank god for that, so its all just terribly marketed to sound like a ponzi scheme? I still don’t get how they can state that prices can only go up not down, due to their trading algorithm - what’s that all about? How is it not manipulation, or illegal etc? Have you read the literature stating to expect 100% returns in 3 mths etc?

Edit:

Ah, so I see it clearly wasn’t CCP you met, or were on about then, so you’ve no idea whether they’re doing the things I suggested or not? Sounds like a ponzi to me, like I said.
Well, I’ll pass on this particular “investment scheme” I think. I’m going to wait for Maidsafe Africa and the next clever marketing scoop and fill my bags with his highness’s Nigerian Prince coin…… :neutral_face:

3 Likes

Until all this talk of CCP, I hadn’t heard of it nor associated it with Maidsafe. Just saying…

1 Like

I think its a bit of a complicated question really. My understanding is that Maidsafe get a 15% share of Maidsafe Asia’s profits. I assume that Maidsafe Asia has a similar deal with “app developers” such as CCP. If so, then you can say that Maidsafe profits from the activities of CCP. Apparently, it is maintained that if it turns out CCP is a ponzi scheme (not established for certain), this would not be any legal concern for Maidsafe, merely a moral one which David states is not a moral judgement for him to make, nor a legal one because its another jurisdiction.
I’m of the opinion that it might not be quite this simple if it could be established that Maidsafe funded the promotion of a ponzi scheme or market manipulation involving their own coin for example. I’m no expert on these matters though…lol
My concern would be around the legalities in their own jurisdiction, not Asia tbh. Certainly, a number of things touted in CCP’s literature would ring legal alarm bells in the UK I think.
Anyway, some questions I would ask as a Maidsafe investor would be:

  1. What was the 500K investment in exchange for?
  2. Do Maidsafe still own/control the 15m Maidsafecoins?
    3 Are Maidsafe absolutely certain that they have all the legal bases covered here? :smile:
1 Like

I think you are incorrect about this, I believe it was said that Maidsafe Solutions would take that percentage from app developers they invest in.

Where did you see that Maidsafe take a percentage of Maidsafe Solutions? I followed quite closely but may have missed this :smile:

3 Likes

I may well be incorrect about this, I just have a vague memory of something like this being stated. Perhaps the team could clarify these questions? It would make a big difference and remove some concerns if you are correct.:smile:

1 Like

Read the BTTF topics and there is information there. As all who paid into the BTTF offering, they got shares in the SPV which owns the investment (Shares) in Maidsafe.

The coin addresses have been shown a number of times and I believe you will find them in the price & trading topic. Go and look at those addresses that Maidsafe had the coins in and please tell us if they are still there. So far Maidsafe have been upfront when/after any coins have been moved.

I hope so too. Its hard to cover all though since its hard to know everything to cover. Sometimes we only find out after being bitten. I hope (am confident) that Maidsafe has covered all they (should) know of.

I have not heard of this and you are the first I can remember to make such an assertion. (the 15%)

1 Like

Calm down mate, a simple yes would have sufficed and as I never claimed Maidsafe have not been upfront, that sentence is totally unnecessary .[quote=“neo, post:15, topic:13313”]
I have not heard of this and you are the first I can remember to make such an assertion. (the 15%)
[/quote]

I made no such assertion, I stated it was my understanding and also stated I may be incorrect. Are you asserting this to not be the case or merely stating you haven’t heard of it - as that’s not particularly helpful.
As I’ve said before, this kind of overly defensive attitude gives a bad impression of the forum inhabitants in my view.

Just to clarify for others, it appears that my basic assumption that Maidsafe takes a percentage from Maidsafe Asia/Solutions was likely incorrect. This would appear to remove all legal concerns I had. My apologies for my mistaken assumption. :smile:

1 Like

I wasn’t upset, I have not checked for a long time and do not know myself. So I thought you could go and look since you wanted to know. Sorry if I sounded otherwise.[quote=“Al_Kafir, post:16, topic:13313”]
I stated it was my understanding
[/quote]

Isn’t that an assertion. Maybe its a different use of the word because of an Aussie thing… Since you said you understood it as such, I assumed you thought you heard/read it somewhere. Oh well a point of a word misuse on my part - sorry.

2 Likes

Yes, sorry for snapping too. An assertion is different:

“a confident and forceful statement of fact or belief”

Tbh, I thought it was strange that David seemed so casual and dismissive about the whole thing and totally not arsed (as CCP is not any of his business). - I thought it was. He prob wondered what I was so concerned about…lol. :smile:

3 Likes

And here’s your answer:

This is what is stated in that document. No one knows who created/altered/uploaded it to Bitcointalk.

So the only connection seems to be that they want to build their ideas on the SAFE technology. I did find a MaidSafe logo on their website though:

Looks like they’re confusing the SAFE technology with the company that builds the technology. It’s like showing a Mozilla logo when you want to express support for Firefox.

The link on Bitcointalk doesn’t seem to be from CCP itself.

What strategic alliance? You mean the fact that they state that they want to use the SAFE network? Do I have a strategic aliance with Microsoft when my App runs on Windows? And again, this document isn’t coming from CCP:

It’s like an investment fund .

If you are interested , the minimum investment is $180 and you could get up to 3x in max one year.

Anyway before investing please read and only invest what you can afford to lose . It’s gambling also .

If anyone interested I can show some print screen from my accounts . I invested $3600 and got back in 40 days $2400 .

more someone who is abusing their name claiming he has made money being an investor.

like I said, who’s telling you that document is coming from them?

see above

based on a document on Bitcointalk which you think is coming from CCP.

Your assumption is again based on a document that’s posted by someone on Bitcointalk.

Looks like all your replies here are actually based on something that someone wrote on Bitcointalk. I could go to Bitcointalk as well to create a topic with links to a document I created promoting an investment using a companies name. Here’s the official CCP website and none of the claims you make or the “literature” you talk about is coming from their website..

Feel free to link me to the official “literature” if I missed something. There’s also a misquote in your reply here. It looks like David linked to that google document which he didn’t.

2 Likes