Cameron orders GCHQ to attack "dark net"


#1

Here it comes, because paedophiles…

…which is ironic considering further revelations this morning from ExaroNews about conservative MPs and a cabinet minister murdering young boys during pedophile orgies attended by head of MI6 - fishy timing.

Good old Daily Mail:

Last night:
http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5409/operation-midland-investigates-tory-mp-over-boy-s-murder

Earlier:
http://www.exaronews.com/articles/5398/ex-mi6-chief-named-as-sexual-abuser-of-boys-at-dolphin-square


SAFE and anonymity - 81% of Tor users easily de-anonymised
#2

Yip there are WMD’s there are honest, lets blow it all to blazes cause there are WMD’s. Sad thing is though the majority will just allow this. We need to plough through and just free everyone.


#3

happybeing,

They are pathetic aren’t they? - they are so transparent but they get away with so much manipulation! One of the ideas I have for http://lestp.org is (it can’t happen for the foreseeable future but it might get people thinking) is to replace actual, elected, PEOPLE in the House of Representatives (Lower House) seats with Computer Expert Systems and AIs - they would work 24 hours a day, behave completely logically and rationally, not rip off the system, not go on junkets, not get caught with their pants down with hookers etc etc.

Regards,

Phil.


#4

Sad, but expected. The establishment will use every tool in their arsenal to retain power. They will pray on people’s fears and use propaganda in every way they can.

Freedom will win out though. The opposite is too horrific to consider.


#5

At the risk of veering off topic, David Cameron writes in the Gaurdian tomorrow and uses FUD about an impending world economic crash to try and push through the secret US-EU trade deal. No sign of democracy here either.


#6

Traktion,

I agree with the sentiments but I think “pray” conveys a different meaning to what you wanted . .

P.


#7

My understanding of the “dark web” is anything that can’t be indexed by searches. So email, FTP, Tor, Dropbox, Mega, bittorrent, etc. are all considered the “dark web.” So the government isn’t fighting against The Dark Web™. That’s not a single thing. They can be fighting against people using the dark web for CP.

Therefore, aren’t they just doing what most people want? Using standard police techniques to hunt down criminals (child pornographers)? As long as they don’t set up blanketed backdoors on random systems, don’t degrade encryption integrity to make their jobs easier, do normal police work and go after the networks (of people) distributing CP, then it sounds good to me.

The article’s context here seems to be misconstrued by an anti-establishment agenda, clouding it’s sentiment. By this logic, I could just post any article related to government and shout “Here they go again, being all governmenty! Fight hte man!”

How would anyone in this forum go after child pornography rings without appearing to step on your belief systems metaphorical toes? I know they’re seen as a red herring these days, that doesn’t mean you dismiss them entirely. They still need to be dealt with, no matter how hipstery you are about it.

This is kinda funny though:

Mr Cameron has made clear that he wants more to be done to protect internet users from vile images online…

But the deep web can’t be accessed by accident, so people can’t stumble onto it, so by finding questionable content you’ve seeked it out, therefore you’re performing a criminal act (in most countries). Weirdly flawed logic.


#8

Yeh, and traditional police work prevails.


#10

russell,

No offence, but your post sounds quite naive - it is too much trouble for the Military-Corporate-Intelligence Complex (MCIC) - and not in their interests anyway - to narrowly collect information JUST on the “bad guys” - so they just collect information on EVERYBODY - you have heard of Snowden and the NSA right? ALL technology can be used for undesirable purposes - you are not seriously suggesting that because people here are concerned about the abuses by MCIC that they are therefore somehow supporting the child pornographers?


#11

@Russell to understand my post I think I need to provide some context…

If the UK security services, police and political establishment gave a damn about paedophiles, the UK would not have been covering up - repeatedly - the abuse and murder of young boys by establishment paedophiles. Each day now we’re learning of another MP, or another parent of a missing child, having taken evidence to the police and it not been acted on. Or of an investigation that started, and was then stopped by orders from above. Or of evidence passed to the Home Office that lead to nothing and can no longer be found.

We’ve had two people appointed by David Cameron to chair one inquiry, each of whom had had to step down because they were connected to people who are in some way connected to someone who was to be investigated. One was a sibling! The other a personal friend.

This goes back at least to 1989, with numerous complaints to police and the home office (witnesses, a large dossier, specific complaints and allegations by MPs) not acted on, and evidence “lost”.

Earlier this year, the Wanless report, a government review, found “no evidence” that Sir Peter Hayman (a known paedophile back in 1979) was involved in paedophile activity, meanwhile there is ExaroNews digging up ample evidence that the ex deputy director of MI6 was raping young boys along with MPs and a Cabinet Minister at regular paedophile “parties” at Dolphin Square in London.

This week we’ve learned that the police are now investigating several murders at those “parties” on the evidence of two witnesses - men who were raped there as boys. So far the witnesses have given accounts of brutal physical and sexual abuse, and the brutal sexual murders of three boys, including one by an MP and one by two unknown men in front of a Cabinet Minister (both politicians are still alive and so not named).

A fourth boy was murdered by being run over, as a warning to one boy, who has now had the courage to come forward, and has provided evidence to the police, triggering these investigations.

The idea that the security services had no knowledge of this is not hard to accept, it’s absurd. If they didn’t know, it was an enormous oversight, and a massive security risk. They are supposed to know what anyone, even ordinary folk who are in a position to betray the state are up to, and even if their background checks and monitoring failed to uncover this, there is clear evidence that they must have known. For example, Sir Peter Hayman, once left a briefcase containing paedophile pornography on a bus. For some reason it was recommended not to prosecute him.

In another case a customs officer had come forward to say that they found a video being brought into the country by a Cabinet Minister, and that this video appeared to show the Cabinet Minister in a room where paedophile abuse was taking place. This was passed up the command chain, and no action was taken. Later, it was reported in the press, but due to intervention by the security service, spun as the minister being caught in possession of pornography. Not quite the same at all, so no prosecution, no scandal.

So the security services, the police, and the political establishment are sitting on a time bomb of cover ups and past, possibly present, abuse and other crimes of the most depraved and horrendous kind.

I do not believe that “cracking the dark net” can be taken at face value, or that it is anything to do with paedophiles, but rather in the vein of Snowden, it is about increasing control by undermining security of the population, of legitimate cryptography users, like the fans of MaidSafe. I’m not a paedophile. I really do have nothing to hide for criminal purposes, I just value my privacy, and I see the intrusion of an ever more automated and unaccountable security apparatus and political establishment, as a threat to my liberty and to that of all of us.

These people are far more dangerous than ISIS, just look at what we’re finding out about what they’ve been up to, and how long they’ve been covering it up.

ExaroNews are in the middle of a series of revelations from their investigations, so it’s a unfolding story, but you can get a good overview quickly in the Exaro story thread

Naturally there’s hardly anything about this in the establishment media yet, but it is credible by any measure, and I hope finally out of the bag. Police investigation in the glare of publicity should see this brought into the open, although I think it makes for dangerous times for witnesses, evidence, journalists and investigators. They certainly need the privacy and security of the “dark web.”


#12

Great summation of yet another story we would have figured ‘unthinkable’ a few years back. It really does lead you to question the very ground you walk on and feel like you need to touch it to see if this is a weird parallel universe, then the realisation that this is real, these people are in charge and supposed to protect against the very abuses they use as vote winners, yet do as pastimes.

The corruption now hidden in the UK is considerable and probably worse than the openly corrupt states in the world, at least they are open about corruption.

This particular case though must be as sick as you can get, if true then very quickly we must force smaller communities and much much smaller groups of people who are closer to self governing, or at least governed by people you can walk up to.

What I cannot square is that I always think education is the answer, but these are the Eaton type boys, allegedly well educated, so there is a massive issue to be found and worked out, if our society is this broke, it simply will not survive, it cannot, nature will wipe us out and rightly so.

The people need to get together get informed and put an immediate stop to this ‘degrees of separation’ evil that underlies our very foundations as a society.


#13

@dirvine I very much agree, and think you may be interested in the work of Nick Duffell. I know him through his work and the mens groups he runs, one of which I’ve attended for four or so years.

As well as general men’s stuff, he’s done a lot of work with “boarding school survivors”, the very people who run the country are, according to Nick, wounded leaders and he is campaigning to have this recognised and rectified, because they still send their kids, and our future leaders into the same damaging “education” system.

Here’s written in the press, and has published a book about Wounded Leaders.

Here’s an article from The Gaurdian in June, Why boarding schools produce bad leaders


#14

Excellent read and it would appear very easy to believe considering the evidence. I think the community schools where children are not grouped by age, but ability/eagerness for subjects are a great way to go, as well as parents etc. who quiz them and promote questioning as a way to live. It is very likely many boarding schools knock out the questioning part very fast. Interesting!


#15

It’s also an emotional issue. I wasn’t boarded, and I often hear ex boarders views that it did them no harm, but how would they know? So they send their children as some kind of emotional mutilation, family tradition. Think female circumcision. This is male emotional mutilation.

To understand the emotional effects you need to be at least partly emotionally literate, and it is this that is damaged when a boy is separated at a young age, from the close relationship with his mother, the supportive presence of father, and equally as important, from the crucial surroundings of the hopefully emotionally functioning intimate relationship between his parents.

We learn how to relate emotionally, to ourselves and others, by witnessing how others close to us relate to each other. How they experience and relate to their own emotions, and of course how they relate emotionally to us. You can learn about this, but it can’t be taught, it is something that we internalise if we’re lucky enough to experience it in formative years.

This is the context for all the individualistic ideas that are creating a culture of separation and mentally damaging loneliness, along with endless competitive **** you, **** them, attitudes that damage everyone. The reason humans are great it’s because we’re fundamentally social. Mistakenly disabling that seems destined to be our epitaph… unless!


#17

It’s possible I’m not conveying my thoughts right. I specifically said not collecting massive broad data, but doing actual police work within the limits of the law. Don’t you go puttin’ words in ma’ mouth. I’m saying law enforcement should not break current laws to collect information about suspects.

It’s also possible you’re in the camp of “all law enforcement must be destroyed! All government is evil! All business must die!” In which case, eh.

Child pornography is often considered a red herring by this kind of community specifically because it is important. It’s something that people feel strongly about, and it’s something that does deserve severe legal attention. Just because it’s used as a red herring doesn’t mean it has to be completely written off. Everything doesn’t need to be polarized.

I am seriously not suggesting that. If it sounded like I meant that, I sure didn’t. No one thinks that. Again, no one supports child molesters. Evening having to write that sentence just made me dumber. Noooo onneee dooeessss.

The article appeared to me to just be about law enforcement saying they’re going to make more of an effort in hunting CP on the dark web. I was saying that I sometimes, people who have extreme perspectives can’t help but see their crusade everywhere. And that I don’t think this article specifically has anything to do with privacy breaches.

I’m saying, be careful of being a zealot.

What’s the NSA? < /condescension >


#18

Ahh, thats helpful context. thanks @happybeing


#19

@Russell I am a bit confused by your words.

And that I don’t think this article specifically has anything to do with privacy breaches.

That’s what cracking the dark web means to me. Maidsafe is dark web. Cracking it, as in the case of Tor, means breaking the protection it provides for everyone.

That isn’t normal police work to me, it’s justifying the elimination of privacy by suggesting its the only way to save our children from child molesters, and ourselves from ISIS and their like.

Last week the new head of GCHQ was trying to bully the largest American corporations into withdrawing privacy protections beyond what the law already requires. Privacy advocate Eben Moglen points out how disingenuous he’s being, and calls for him to be sacked.

To do genuine police work, they already have the means to obtain data, through due process, targeted surveillance etc. and they always will. Tor and MaidSafe act to undo the technological capabilities that have only recently arrived, the “collect it all and analyse later” philosophy that all of a sudden we are told is essential. Yet we’ve seen time and again, that it was failures in traditional intelligence and analysis work that have let these agencies down, not lack of data. To me it seems more like saving face than rational decision making.

Both Boston and 9/11 are really showing that mass surveillance is not the issue, and that if the agencies had acted properly on what they already knew, both atrocities would have been prevented. Yet they are used to justify mass surveillance.


#20

I don’t see anywhere about “cracking” the dark web. They said “cracking” the CP web, which I took as just getting the people doing it. I didn’t see anything in the article specifically saying they want to monitor all traffic, or add back doors, or stop the use of encryption, or any of the reasonable things to get up in arms about.

The deep web can’t be “cracked” anyway. You can target people, but no one is creating a big skeleton key for the deep web. The concept encapsulates too much. My Dropbox content is technically part of the deep web.

Now, I’m not saying these tactics will or won’t be used by the people in the article. I’m saying, this article doesn’t seem to be able that, and that we’re projecting meaning into an article about something else.

But you’re also saying that this topic comes with extra baggage in the UK that I’m unfamiliar with, so I’m reading on that to stay informed.

Hindsight is 20/20.


#21

I think in every country its painted differently as that is what politics is designed to do. They arent there ‘protecting your freedoms’ or whatever they are telling you. They are massaging the decisions they have made in a back-room deal into something they think the public can digest. From over 5 years ago it was obvious that ‘protecting the children’ was going to be the carte blanche double speak for bringing in deep packet inspection. Its great, it freaks out the middle class and the older generation all at once while the real reason its being done is to roll in deep packet inspection.

For instance, the same message got delivered to Ireland last week but this is something that rolls over peoples heads here.

So the company is saying they are going to restrict access to child porn websites. This sounds great on paper. Everyone without knowledge of the web thinks they are protecting children.

Whats really happening. Deep packet inspection. There is no child porn on the web, even google has 3 employees on it daily filtering manually and reporting anything found to law enforcement. (read an article on it some time ago, high pay, quick burn out job with some PTSD afterward. Sounds terrible). The web is actively looking for child porn already as everyone on it is looking to stop it. Where does it reside, on tor. Can they deep packet inspect tor packets. No. So whats actually happening? They are getting ready to start filtering for the music and movie studios and most likely governments down the road. Ireland is going to sign up (undemocratically I might add) to the TTIP soon. Thats going to mean companies either play Hollywood ball or risk massive fines in some kind of uncompetitive, IP property dispute in some court of international business.

But the whitewashing is solid. Protect the kids and all that…


#22

@dirvine Interesting coincidence, Nick Duffell is on BBC2 Scotland Newsnight tonight, following a debate in Edinburgh: Athens of the North embraces truth about boarding and the wounded lead culture.