Breaking extractive business models and practices with slipage

One of the most onerous practices of entities like Face Book and Linked in and more and more Google… is insisting that one must sign in and get raped by privacy mining to access the database/service. This is conditioning the public to accept and expect abuse. We should pay only if we want, always after the fact, and only what we want with no pressure ever.

The hope is that open source replacements and DAO can fix this. From HTML 5.0 replacing to SAFE the near future seems set to de-condition the pay to play extractive business models and practices help support the extractive levels of return that Wall Street needs to survive and in the process take a large step to reversing the hollowing out of our quality of life and safety net infrastructure…

The other day I saw a televangelist talking about how religious leaders are also political leaders. Most of us in the newer generations question the value of so called ‘leadership’ in any context and would rather take orders from a machine than so called ‘leaders.’ Replacements that break the walled garden pay walls and refusing to pay for what can be provide for free is vital step Expanding the commons and stuffing the extractive phoney competition and privatization efforts will result.

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On the other hand, if others didn’t sign the agreement to be ‘privacy raped’, there would be no database to access…

You would have a facebook that didn’t know who you where friends with, and a linked in that didn’t know who you worked with – The value of the database is the data, and the data wouldn’t exist without the submission of data by agreement.

I don’t really see a way around it. a DAO may be able to gather the data without allowing itself to use the data, but it still is spilling the same data to a bunch of strangers who may or may not use it ethically. If you are going to link me up with my high school classmates, all of my classmates are going to get my name…

I remember on Facebook a certain young lady who suddenly became friends will all of the gentlemen I went to college with. I got a friend request, asked around, and nobody could remember her, but everyone else knew her - so she must have been somebody we knew – but you look harder and there where groups on the opposite side and camp of campus that thought the exact same thing – The likelyhood of her being in both groups where very slim…

Anyway, I would be really interested in how this DAO you have in mind would work… From a computer science perspective, not a wishful thinking perspective…

Not necessarily, this is getting more aggressive and at best given the progress of tech it looks like a stage. There are other possibly faster ways to evolve tech that don’t involve exploitation.

It still should have been completely under the end user’s control and there should have been no regrets.

I don’t buy the DAO thing yet Lots of talk but very short on technical details on how any of it will work.

The simple fact of the matter is that most people fail to care what they disclose to websites. It doesn’t matter if it is Facebook or a DAO… You are still going to have to tell it where you went to school, if you want to meet up with former classmates, where you worked if you want to meet up with former co-workers etc…

The problem with a DAO is that you can’t kill them easily if they have unintended consequences. Bittorent, Bitcoin, Maidsafe – They will be out there weather you like them or not and as technology progresses they will be harder and harder to kill…

If a DAO is set on spilling your privacy, Then it will, and there will be nobody that can be sued or raided or fined or anything else. That is just the nature of the beast… For every good DAO, there is no reason there cannot be an evil DAO. The technology is agnostic…

At least with a corporation, you have recourse… And they have an illusion of customer service to maintain…

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And there will be DAOs that squeeze the the corporate bs really hard. But one limit, even with unforeseen consequences, short of calling a virus a DAO, it that most would seem to need provide some utility to spread. Also, they don’t have the fat the pig to slaughter it cash-in curve corporates tend to have as of late so they may put a real limit on all-the-market-will-bear non constructive capitalist activity. We want true win-win situations as the norm as those build earned trust and treat value correctly and strengthen society.

Why do you assume DAO’s would be morally good? I would suggest that corporations will build them to cover their own butts.

I am certain that we could build a DAO that sells marketing leads. Tracks where people live, what products they buy etc. All of this info is on the market right now. If we put that data into a DAO then it become more or less out of the reach of the courts and the legislators etc… Big money in that business – And if there is a way to insulate itself from litigation and legislation I am certain such a thing will be undertaken…

Technology is not a panacea for the world’s problems. It is always a double edged sword.

I think anything that can operate at cost is a large step toward restoring the commons. Its a roll back of the patasitic side of the services economy the part that was largely an exercise in artficial scarcity. For instance, people lament the loss of news papers, but even if news papers were somewhat local they were always sponsored and there was never any editorial firewall.

I see profit as a very broken mechanism, greatly reducing it is a first step toward a solution In providing value through free and open the actual bottom line of living standard is by improved in way that short circuits the fake workplace and fake stock market. I think people have had it with broken extractive mechanisms like corporations. Take a look at the way MaidSAFE itself is constructed. That’s going a long way in the right direction.

Litigation isnt working. I still think entities like Slur on SAFE will be enormously helpfull in addressing stuff like Republican voter fraud. I see it getting rid of the Republican party- it cant work if it cant lie. It wont survive when its Iran Contra and its ISIS are exposed before, during and after, the money mega phone will be broken, and we will stop being distracted by what doesnt matter. We will see referenda that sucessfully eject firms from whole territories- a step beyond Vermont keeping Walmart out. Not every supply chain is a good one.

Dreamworld. Warren. Iran Contra was exposed and by and large the voters elected more Republicans.

There is no indication that much of anything can operate at cost… MaidSAFE may be a nice trading mechanism, but in the end, people are going to use it for profit. I invest in MaidSAFE and not need a datacenter. I can invest in MaidSAFE and not need as many IT staff. I can invest in MaidSAFE and not risk having my servers compromised and my trade secrets stolen. The reason that MaidSAFE will succeed is because it is massively profitable to the corporations you hate, and provides them significantly better security that can be had with current technologies.

Crap like Slur on SAFE is going to be a drop in the bucket… Kinda like what you find on TOR. Just a obscurity that effects very few conspiracy theorists. Plus it will likely be flooded with all kinds of gibberish theories so one cannot tell up from down… Why not? It is totally anonymous… Little risk, lots to gain…

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DAO is not simply a automated corporation, it is something that can replace a corporation that has no employees, managers, executives or owners. For conceptual consisteny it will operate on a hardware/software network controlled/owned by end users. It will be operating at cost in a commons. Corporations have trouble competing with open source and free. We wont pay for what we dont have to pay for. Its a huge revenue reduction that makes people much better off.

And no it wont be hard to sift the noise when data sets and keys are present. Corporate world is failing, it couldnt lasy long in the face of a declining standard of living, its an exhausted standard. The towers, the flooding of Manhattan, the riots there and now a Socialist in Greece giving German austerity a huge middle finger. Equality and Democracy are being resurected and brought to places like the USA. The irony of Germany doing what was done to it at the end of WW1. What is that? The business cycle? There are tens of thousands of Satoshi(s) waiting out there.

Right, but if I can make my organization selling marketing leads run without any employees managers executives etc. I can remain the owner (Anonymously behind a bitcoin address, and I can sell leads to people who want to market much cheaper than any centralized company can-- Plus I am nearly impossible to sue - or to shut down, because I only exist in the decentralized internet cloud…

There will still be a demand for marketing leads. I will still be selling other people’s names and addresses etc… People will still sign up for free services. They will still send in their warentee registrations. They will still do business with public companies that have can profit from selling data…

The technology is morally neutral. If I am one of your bad guys I can still use it and get all the benefits… And I can slide those benefits into my pocket…

Decentralization is just as helpful to the for-profit companies as it is to anybody else…

Nope, you’ll only slide the value into your pocket if you are consistently better than “FREE.” How is that for a free market?

Not really true. Photoshop sells a lot in spite of GIMP…

There are lots of other factors that decide which product is preferable to another. Free doesn’t win. Apple sells like crazy, with little added functionality and generally X4 times the price of a PC…

People pay for an experience that they like, and they don’t really care whose pockets the money lands in so long as they get what it is that they like.

Moreover, If I was looking for a DAO to replace Linkedin for example – Or Facebook… I would probably be most likely to the select the one that is most effective at getting me in touch with my friends.

Chances are low that this is going to be the most privacy friendly DAO… The whole concept is antithetical to the mission…

And if Said DAO sold their data out the backend, Who would you sue?

You can build a dreamworld where this might not happen. But it would be just that…

Who would use a DAO that was subject change that way. Open source or no trust remember. Part of the value in addition to free is trust.

Dont think shovel ware free ware. Think Linux, bitcoin, SAFE, These foundations are disruptive enough but they are just the beginning. These bits and flops and code represent cummulative capacity. Thr only thing to monitize is access and efforts like SAFE fix that.

Trust is easily bought. The prevalence of Bitcoin Ponzi schemes and the steadfast defense of such by their impending victims demonstrates this very well…

The data marketers trade the cookie of your product warentee for you name, address, phone number, data of Purchase, Store of purchase etc etc etc. People take that deal every day because free is a good price.

I don’t doubt that the technology will be disruptive. The simple fact is that it will cut the bottom line of profit driven organizations a lot more than non-profits because profit driven organizations have a lot more to spend. The guy with the datacenter is and a staff of 30 IT guys is going to save a ton more by using maidSAFE than the guy with a server in his basement. EVERY time. Disruption may hurt some middlemen – But by and large that means more profits to everybody who patronized the middleman And usually that isn’t the consumer.

This isnt pollyanna, I do believe it means more money for people who do right by their customers and dont play games.

There have been projections of encroachment by the third or fourth sector for a long time but it hasnt come to pass in part because of the power of payola and blackmail. At the same time this internet part of the economy is known for shuttering established businesses and replacing them with something better that runs on 100x less revenue while making someone rich. That was oddly the convergence or bundling economy, and it resulted in more concentrated gateways and more generic commoditized gateways.

But this is more agressive, bitcoin aimed to cut the fed monopoly out and hit banking etc., its bigger fish. But underneath it all is a real economy based on standard of living and quality of life. Its honestly tapping into that that makes the difference.

Really doesn’t matter. It may disrupt things, but if you kill the old big fish you tend to just get new big fish…

Well at least its not the “sharing economy” its more like the no gateway, no lock in, pay what its actually worth to us.