Beyond Safecoin and avoiding unnecessary forks

If you fork the Safe Network, you lose the data already on it. That is not the case with Bitcoin etc.

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The Maidsafe Foundation is a Scottish charity which owns the patents and a controlling share in Maidsafe Limited.

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That’s a key aspect. Losing saved data, including safecoin balances, is hardly acceptable to users.

We could imagine a network where a large number of Vaults would start using unofficial software that would lead to a fork with data included but, compared to a fork in a blockchain, it seems an extremely difficult process.

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Excellent point.

Forking a Blockchain project more or less has an immediate user base.
Forking SAFEnetwork - who’s your user base? How are you going to convince people to leave behind their SAFEMail and SAFEDocs…

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Was just thinking if you could say that SAFEnetwork is a fork of the current internet.
Probably a good marketing soundbite? We know SAFEnetwork is so much more.

“Crypto projects fork crypto projects… One team in Ayr just forked the entire internet.”

Web1.0 … Web2.0 … Web3.Ohhhhhhhhh SAFEnetwork, 3rd times a charm.

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Especially when they have paid to upload them for good.

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It also minimizes the chance of a fork due to so much invested… Unless the forked network also offers 1:1 maid to forkcoin. Or 1:1 other crypto to fork coin.

Here’s an Unpopular idea to increase early adoption : offer safecoin to BTC 1:1. This would be fine if the MAID and BTC addresses are cloned to SC wallets and accessible via private BTC key. There are only about 5% as many BTC as MAID and the instant increase in initial user base would be huge advertising . Think of it as a payback for all the years that the BTC block chain and it’s users kept MAID safe.

If the network upgrade process is done well all these factors can be self optimized better than any human tweaks.

The place where forks could happen would be for new features or datatypes or security measures. Good amounts of PtD with a sandbox arena could help make sure that these features get integrated into SAFE (if proven to offer an improvement).

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So crazy it might just work, it would solve a lot of invite issues and we would get that initial user base.
Implementation would need to be considered, I guess in this instance a no burn time limited offer?
Automated signed bitcoin message.

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I agree and as @Traktion points out forking can even be desirable for more risky experiments can then rolled back into the Safe Network if they pan out. I would not call ERC-20/721 type functionality built into Safe core a gimmick though - it has a pretty clear use case - MaidSafeCoin as one example. Hopefully it is considered after MVP and/or allowed for in the design of Safecoin data type structures (if it even passes a feasibility study - may be hard to implement efficiently on the Safe Network without an unacceptable trade off).

So two different things are being discussed here, the coin as in the thread title, and the network itself.

Reaching a critical adoption quickly and hopefully universally as far as possible is the important thing I think. It’s like the common anology of building a moat so people can’t just take the idea and tech and build as competing one. I think @happybeing you mean maid is a Scottish charity foundation that owns the patents etc that’s great, so less likely opportunists could rip the network and then employ very targeted and in theory far superior hype/advertising to get the initial adoption rate to some kind of critical mass?

For the coin as @Traktion points out maybe could be a good thing!

Sorry for my level of ignorance but could the multitude of Blockchain based coins with bitcoin at the vanguard not carry over onto the network or specifically are people thinking -superior?- non Blockchain based fork things solely made to propose from the safe coin be the most likely?

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Yes, I think this.

Once the SAFE network or similar exists and is widely used, nobody (or way less people, at least) will want to pay transaction fees or wait for transactions to “settle,” or have default public transactions by using the old-gen cryptos (blockchain such as BTC ETH etc), and I’m supposing that over time, mostly all new crypto activity and new coins will start being new “data types” or whatever, on the main SAFE network (whichever one has gained the largest network effect through its economic configuration).

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I was wondering about that (and wanted to agree that the value of a fork is not only in security but also in the data it holds). But is it true?
Due to lack of understanding of SafeNetwork, I have questions such as: What happens to chunks if say 50% of Elder nodes in a section decide to use a fork of the vault software version? Will some chunks move over to the forked network and get lost from the original network? Due to lack of synchronization (and concept of time), is forking even possible?

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You’re thinking about porting 1 section, but you have to fork all sections if you want all the data and not only the data chunks from a certain section.

That doesn’t mean that forks won’t happen, certainly in the beginning when there are still a lot of things to test/mature and not a lot of data on the network.
But on the other hand in the beginning potential cloners probably lack the needed experience with the code and the concepts.

Why not stopping publishing all the source code from now until launch + 1 year for instance?

It will give us some time to fill the network with a lot of data and use cases :slightly_smiling_face:

I now realize that there are two kinds of forks:

  1. In-place upgrades of vaults, like forks in blockchains.
  2. Git repo kind of forks, starting a network from scratch with no data.

I was only thinking about the first. (The first kind could perhaps be prevented if maidsafe held on to some secret key that controlled upgrades for some time.)
The second, however, seems harder to prevent. Would people with most content / deepest pockets win that kind of safenetwork clone war? Or would that be preventable using Maidsafe’s patents?

  1. Have you seen this topic: Step-by-step: the road to Fleming, 5: Network upgrades? For me a fork also means a split in 2 separate networks, not just an upgrade.
  2. You want to have the possibility for a ‘from scratch’-fork if needed. I think of OpenOffice → LibreOffice or MySql and MariaDb.
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The thing that will win the fork wars is providing the best network. ‘Best’ is a bit subjective, so that’s why there is always room for competition. To become the dominant fork once a network has established some critical mass there are network effects to overcome. This is partly where first mover advantage comes into play. For example, Bitcoin is still king despite many alt coins claiming to be superior on technicals.

why not make a federated way of forks to talk to each other? a standardized way of two networks to talk to each other and all data fro one network to be able to be shown to the other network? like the one network would have safe:// for browsing and another network would have example:// so in the second network if you type safe:// you can browse the first network?

so then people would be able to make their own versions of networks,

just like matrix chat and fedevierse works!

maybe I should make a new post about it? what do you say?

Is there any real users in blockchain field ? Almost of them are investors not users.

Because it is really terribly hard to make a business on blockchain.

But maid is totally different. I am sure if safenet will be launching as expected. Numerous business arise on maid safe.

P.S. Blockchain is data structure and Maidsafe is decentralized network protocol. So, maid dont need to follow other blockchain project’s strategy. Maid and blockchain are totally different layer.

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If I understand correctly some things, I would say some enterprises or organisation’s or countries would make their own “private” network maybe a bit altered fork for special perpose so a country or an organization can have its own vaults saving their own data decentralized and secure from data corruption and even safe from malicious 3rd parties that try to poke into their network.

But then again if safe network is safe wouldn’t it be just easier for an organization to make a set of apps that uses the original safe network to store their data that only them have access from their apps?

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