Balance between the time of launching and 100% security with no bugs

balance between the time of launching and 100% security with no bugs

here is the reason:
1, the project has already delay to launch for almost two month although for reasonable causing
2, too long time of delaying the launch time makes the investor losing faith in it.
3,to my view, this is no impeccable software exist with no bugs…there is always rooms that you can improve your software with updating, but that does not means delaying the beta launch with no deadline time is good strategy.

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I have not seen any set date for a launch, so not sure how it’s been ‘delayed’ for 2 months… the Dev updates clearly show the trajectory.

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I figure the team would rather not push updates when the network is in the wild as that bothers some that they retain that ability directly after launch until they feel comfortable. Also the code base is being minimized increasing the fundamental understanding of the network to newbies and also security (less code less chance of bugs). I am as anxious as you and I’m sure you probably realize these factors. I would love to see faster progress but there are limitations for the team. Hope you can hold out hope. People are becoming more discouraged as new revelations of global surveillance are permeating our lives and the lives of others but maidsafe really does have the potential to level the playing field. It is the beginning of something very big that the world will be catching up with for years to come. Hang in there.

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once It had been promised launching at the end of last year 2014.

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Imagine what working on this for almost 9 years is like

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yes at the first 7 years it was almost only David solo working, after crowding funding, which is boost the processing last year can be the break-through.

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I have never really been solo working (apart from a time in Brno to write up patents and design), what I mean is there were always Engineers and other staff, the first 5 years I did most of the admin (with occasional help) and raising cash to pay wages, no code. I also had to hand hold many investors who wanted meetings every week (200 of them) and some who worked with us full time, which meant I got nearly zero work done.

Since the crowd-sale that changed where Nick took a pro-active stance in managing the business end and I spent a long time answering questions to get everyone the info they needed. So really since Aug/Sep last year I did eventually get into code again and looking at the implementation and algorithms. This is what lead to me looking deeper into the foundational logic and the recent breakthroughs with vaults in particular. The code base is huge so takes a lot of time.

This is a big issue as previously there were only myself, Fraser and very few others that understood most or all of the logic and complexity (very hard). So we had a team that included some of the best c++ guys I have come across, some Phd’s that ware super smart and we were not able to really use them (terrible term) to debate logic.

The difference now is the whole team can see the core logic and this allows many bright individuals to contribute at the deepest of levels and debate the implementation (which is now way simpler). So I can continue my foray into the depths of the code and particularly type system and algorithms looking for faults or even better core algorithms.

The only pressure is time, so 9 years later I get time to look into the code and we are in the middle of launch, this is a curse of the current world, where it’s hard to pay researchers or just give somebody cash to build something. We had to work with me talking presenting and travelling all over the place whilst the Engineers were left implementing (what I now realise was) a too complex system. I feel now we are much more a team of individuals the can leverage on each others skillsets as opposed to handing out small bits of work to people who really were not sure how it all went together.

Simpler code implementing the same level of complex Engineering, but that has been reduced with algorithms that take the complexity and handle it without huge lumps of code and if statements all over the place.

The position we are in now is exactly where the project should be, I just wish I had been able to get in there much faster to help out. I know for sure we will now see much faster progress as routing_v2 is fully realised, which is imminent.

We will also publish the language to describe system actions and it will allow people on this forum to also actively contribute to the implementation, still very hard, but now possible. So we will expand the knowledge base.

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Thanks to David and the whole team at Maidsafe, without you guys the outlook would be quite bleak right now.

The position we are in now is exactly where the project should be, I just wish I had been able to get in there much faster to help out. I know for sure we will now see much faster progress as routing_v2 is fully realised, which is imminent.

I wonder how many people had a vision like David, that fell short at the tedious stage of raising funds and placating ‘investors’. Maidsafe pulled through and the advances now seem fantastic.

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I’m an investor and I’m impatient. But the reason I’m an investor is because I read David Irvine’s metaquestions posts, and gained a feel for the project through the old MaidSafe website & blog, and found all questions being answered with integrity and honesty on the Google list and reddit.

I’ve been involved almost every day now since the crowdsale, and have seen what I thought was a (never “promised” but) much anticipated launch date creeping away as it approached.

This is frustrating, but all through this the team have handled our frustrations and impatience with great respect and resiliance. David has collected together a great team of people, and they have given what they can, some a great deal it is obvious, for the same kind of reasons (but each individual) as we have had for staying here.

Some will leave, and that is fine. They were here for different reasons than those who stay.

It is ok to say you want it sooner, have doubts, fear your investment may not pay off if we spend too much time getting it right etc. You are entitled to your view and to your objectives, but be aware that while there are many investors here, I think it is clear that most have invested as much to support and create something as for profit.

I prefer that we trust @dirvine and the team rather than hassle them. Their progress is clear if you want to look at either the roadmap or the github and jira feeds. You can build and play with the software. It is NOT ready. They are making it ready! :slight_smile:

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I read most of the article and tutor videos. And participate instrument video crowd funding. Yes I tend to trust the team of Maidsafe and David Irvine but until now the code of Maidsafe is very hard for me to play with. Can I build a Nod and join the network now? I am sure At least I can build it if there is any document to instrument how to do.

Anyone with sufficient skills can follow the MaidSafe instructions and build the code, but there is not much you can do with it and you may do better waiting for the installers which will make the process very simple.

Two months? Hehehehe, here is how I remember the never-ending story of how I came by to get to know Maidsafe and related things a really long time ago:

Maidsafe history as I remember it:

Some ancient Maidsafe Google-hosted place
e.g. https://archive.today/EhxEM from years ago with early descriptions of technology and layers, self-encryption, pbkdf(2), researching some DHT back then lead me to maidsafe-dht, the some Google mailing-list entries to subscribe to which never took off or never received any information from those, eventually getting into slight email contact with David.

Then there was some Reddit http://www.reddit.com/r/darknetplan/comments/1x9kkz/maidsafe_will_do_for_data_what_bitcoin_does_for/ and other places linking back to some historic Maidsafe area and thread on gsfc (GetSatisFaCtion) that gave early rants and inquiries into Maidsafe development and potential release and roadmap, that thread alone was worth 4 years in occasional discussion, eventually that place maybe became too embarrassing or awful and apparently the gsfc area got renamed into some random string or so maybe for the search engines not to associate the term Maidsafe any more with the place, eventually the whole gsfc place was abandoned and taken down.

Meanwhile there was a brief (about a year or so) presence on Facebook, when also new terms and wording had been introduced, hence came Lifestuff and Workstuff and Golifestuff and Goworkstuff, plenty of domains appeared, there briefly was even a phpbb or similar forum and board up on a separate domain of its own where some test-posts and greetings appeared.

Then of course as you already guessed all of this disappeared again ;), Facebook was bid farewell and claimed that if or better say when Facebook walked down the privacy road and respected users freedoms one would return back to the fb/maidsafe playgrounds. Ah yes now I am even remembering the Novinet interlude which preceded the then-renamed Maidsafe layers and overall change in wording and terms. Oh and don’t forget multimedia, as some videos and Youtube appeared every now and then, teasers, or even a very old video of some windows app and gui or mockup showing the Lifestuff some introductory video, which was years later again remade by Shona and so on.

After that Maidsafe.net website appeared, there even was some mobile sub-site I wandered through the html back then, and visited the site via mobile browsers just to try to find new tiny bits of information, to no avail :wink:

Much more happened along the road and I have probably forgotton many things already as I have followed the Maidsafe adventure for 5-6 years by now.

So don’t want to scare anyone away from these grounds but delaying a mere months is not ‘quite’ describing the real story here :wink:

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I think you will find though me pushing launch all the way and as I have said without being in the code. You will see facebook etc. all being done under control of an investor who knew better and tried to control us. I see nothing but a determination and fixation on the vision. So now we are completely open, source, meetings and roadmap with pods and community members being trained so yes we try hard, many people have changed in the team folk give up their holidays and I give up everything to make this happen. So you will also see a clarity and honesty (I hope) in what I say, we had thought many times launch was imminent due to me listening to devs telling me that. It’s indicative of the inventor not being in on the implementation.

We spent all day today discussing the new language (a significant find) and even looking at Feynman diagrams to implement this. I think now we are in a great position and I have said many times where we are from my view. I am now deep in the code and the team know where we are, as well as the community so no investors running the show, no hand holding, pure implementation and logic. We are mid way (near complete) testnet2 and that is measurable and verifiable by building the code and running it (some here have) .

so tl;dr This journey has been hell, but it is where it is and everyone knows. The team cannot work harder or divulge more in as open a manner as can be plausible, I am in the code and can testify to the progress and implementation of the design, so hard, yes, fast, (no choice) but yet we still do what we do and why? Because it has to be done and we know it’s hard but we also know it just has to be, not in a python/javascript mock up, but in a foundational and solid manner. This solid approach works and can extend, who knows how long ? nobody, who knows how hard and qualified the team are, well anyone really. So yes a hard road, but that scares me none, what matters is we do this.

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Well said sir. keep rockin!

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…and your still here, great stuff.

A lot has changed in tech over the last 9 years, much easier to bootstrap a project like this in 2015.

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Some years ago I went for a job at a tiny start up - it consisted of the two founders (one coder the other coder/marketer), plus the part time accounts lady. That was it.

At the interview I asked about their exit. They were about my age, and the coder, my potential boss said boldly they’d seen this process in other companies they’d worked for, understood it, and would exit within 5 years.

I joined in the same week as another coder and someone to train the customers, so when I began we were 4.5 people, or maybe 6.5 if you looked at how hard the founders worked! :smile:

They did know their stuff, they were very bright, had a bloody marvellous proposition at the perfect time for the market. It sold, the company grew, offices and agents sprang up around the world, but the exit kept receding into the distance. People left well before any value accrued to their employee shares. I remained in the core of development for about 5 years and gradually got to explore my own ideas, one of which became a spin off. But still no exit. All the way the founders kept their vision - and they did it all without taking a pound of external investment (and these guys were just bright, not wealthy!).

I stuck with them. I hassled them over the years, but remained part of the team until I had to leave due to ill health. But they had integrity, and ensured I didn’t lose out because I had to leave before the exit.

The exit came eleven years after I joined. This enables me to both recognise qualities in David and MaidSafe, and to be realistic about technology development. We’ve all seen the headline makers who go from zero to billions in the blink of an eye, but they are a) a small fraction of the reality, and b) take on large VC investors who are only in there to maximise their investment and generally have only secondary interest in the vision and values of the founders.

So MaidSafe are right on (track) from my experience :smile:

*coder = software engineer really :slight_smile:

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Dude you rock, your a real HARDCORE Maidsafe fan.

I’m a investor and I’m not loosing faith. Maybe it’s better to stop these posts with question when we’ll launch. If you don’t have the patience for this innovation, move on and regret it. This is not an attack on you or whoever feels like writing a same post. But we have no idea of the hard work that the team is putting in to get this done. I don’t care if we launch this year or in 2017. All I’m concern about now, is that I keep my Maidsafecoin safe and absolutely don’t exchange them.

@Abittner your my hero for this month
:stuck_out_tongue:

I was working on a very similar project circa Oct. 2012 before I ever became aware of MaidSafe. I would have simply linked to their project and helped develop it if I had known. Took my website offline recently, but put a remix of all the content across time from the frontpage. I know it is more than half-baked, but the descriptions are almost in exact similitude to the MaidSafe project for the original design goals.

~ The Home of Recombinant Networking ~

Recombinant DNA (rDNA) molecules are DNA sequences that result from aids
(molecular cloning) to bring together genetic material from multiple
sources,
from "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recombinant_DNA"
Scalar, fractaline, recombinant networking:

To build topologically decentralized, distributed, encrypted microcosmic
arrays of self-similar node-clusters in the form of a Mesh network that
is capable of operating independently-- above, around, behind, inside
and on top of the current Internet…
… A whimsical fantasy ride into the unknown! …

(or simply a network by the “elves”, for the “elves”
… Wait a minute! … Shhh! … It’s clandestine! …
… Oops! …
… A humorously, paradoxically, playfully puzzling, enigmatic, cryptographic network …
…A
whiteHole of sentient communication, liberation, and unity … An
opening for a hive of wise, intelligent minds to gather and bee! …

The bees shall find lasting honey here. Built to rescue friends and
family from the Matrix agents and wake them up from the strange goo pool
of deprivation that they are were born into. Pirate broadcast from
Elfoscope Ship in redPill reality. Doing the best to get people
unplugged. Consider this the epilogue to the Matrix trilogy…
Possibility, potentiality, probability, and predictability all intrigue
the intelligent mind. Anyone interested in exploring in any of these in
their extremes is welcome to join the team. Let us ponder together on
these matters. Let us learn together to find the resolution to the
global crisis.
… To develop a fully non-profit motivated “Internet” Design …

All Software for Recombinet Will Be GPLed
The freedom to run the program, for any purpose (freedom 0).

The freedom to study how the program works, and change it so it does your computing as you wish (freedom 1).
Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

The freedom to redistribute copies so you can help your neighbor (freedom 2).

The freedom to distribute copies of your modified versions to others
(freedom 3). By doing this you can give the whole community a chance to
benefit from your changes.
Access to the source code is a precondition for this.

Possibility, potentiality, probability, and predictability all intrigue the intelligent mind. Anyone interested in exploring in any of these four in their extremes is welcome to join the team.

Governments don’t like DDoS because they want exclusive rights to censorship. i.e it’s only okay when they censor under the banner of copyright, but it’s not alright with them when the people censor them!

Technical Ideas:

Encryption solves difficulty of having anonymity and a form of identification at the same time.

Private Infrastructure Networking + Anonymous Networking

Allow new network to seamlessly integrate with current internet as a topical overlay until it eventually replaces it.

Wireless networking and open spectrum devices
Transmission Time Encoding-- Anonymous Network Transfers
Initiation Session Time Keys
Expiration Upon Receipt

IPAv7 New Networking Schematic based on IPv4 and Application Layer Services

IPv4 has been proven to work functionally for a world of 7 billion people. It’s easy to use and close to anyone can figure out how to use and connect to this addressing scheme.

Encrypted Search Engine :: Needs to be able to search through multiple protocols and display relavant entries-- without any possibility of being tracked or traced

Allow user submission of content and links. Let popularly accessed links maintain precedence, create safeguard for exploitation and spoofing of information.

Recomb-I-net, The alternative to the internet, by the connected for the connected

Create free, un-patented (not just open) standards that can be reproduced by every day citizens in as many countries possible.

Protect and secure telecommunications infrastructure from eavesdropping and other sorts of interception. Create a language translation engine that does not relay individual user’s specific details or keep tabs on the content they are searching for. Voice recognition software is also important to evaluate when constructing a new net. Aim for inspiring voting politically to enable free tinkering and modification of these technological platforms - that enables people to do whatever they wish with their (hard and soft) technologies.

Look at the most popular technologies and websites, and provide alternatives for them. i.e. Youtube, Google-like portal and search engine

Create a means for “anonymously” owned content to be able to be removed from the network at the request of the individual with a unique key. Add or subtract content from the network as individually owned.

NoFace, a completely anonymous networking site.

Replace sites like Facebook with a like system (where the user is in control of what is displayed) that is encrypt-able and users can permanently add or remove their public information from the network by means of a remote key.

Create a protocol like person://unknown.who that relays to a facebook like site and displays entries relevant to identifying one’s self on the network. To change, add, subtract or delete entries from such a log will require a key. Client software that creates a protective layer around the data in the client to make sure the end user would have to write it down in order to capture what the data of each user is. This will prevent bots from collecting various user data.

Create a wikipedia like website that is akin to distributed GNUPedia platform that users can edit and is distributed amongst the entire net. People will get more of the bitCoinlike currency for hosting a redundant copy of a major website in an encrypted form.

Create a ridiculously secure encryption algorithm to replace SSL and the like

Allow for seemless integration with the current internet.

Standardize completely free software to run the network (without black box code blobs) as being inbuilt into any of the hard / software being developed.

Provide means to encrypt data on any hard drive volume Provide means to encrypt memory during the runtime of an application Provide methods to encrypt runtime-level applications and software threads and system calls with a low processor overhead. Provide means for point to point encryption

Provide means to encrypt differently from router to router

Create artificial network (device-only) time synchronized between devices

Provide cross platform means to share CPU, disk, and memory use (allocated and specified percent by user configuration)
Create a bitCoin-like crypto-currency that users can trade after dedicating various amounts of technological resources and support (Bandwidth, CPU, Memory, and Hard Drive Space * time connected-- rated against the whole network ) by becoming nodes of the network. Make it so encrypted and distributed content can be hosted on various computers. This will create the incentive to share and partake in becoming a node of the decentralized network scheme. i.e. People get paid a virtual currency for joining in on this new network over time.

Make it so people can dedicate resources to perform given tasks. Make coin generation higher for more useful apps. For instance running direct democracy and world simulator platform yields more than just hosting popular content on the hard drive. Make it so that more intelligent and innovative ideas are rewarded.

World Simulator and Direct Democracy Platform:
Make an engine that gives real time information from people who choose to report conditions in their local area instead of main stream conduits for weather and temperature/natural disaster warnings. Also make it so people can code their own governments and social codes to operate within localized areas. Make it so people can volunteer for communal tasks. I.e. somebody is not able to do something, a neighbor can take that person’s place if it affects community. Also real time report of wars taking place and situation of people to save people’s lives.

ToR like browsing capabilities and .onion like web addresses
BitTorrent-like file transfer features

Create a way to “torrentize” data in such a way that popular data remains indexed and circulated throughout the network.
Create a way to make revision (dated) hierarchies of updates to such information in such a way that popular versions of software and various content are archived and made accessible.

Create an encrypted anonymized search engine that rivals Google in terms of speed and content recognition that can span multiple protocols such as the currently existing FTP and HTTP
Make it so nodes that aren’t technologically sufficient to encrypt reasonably can still connect through a proxy node

Provide means of anonymizing content flow and distribution of workload
Provide means for precise transfer between two nodes or units within any device connected within the network to communicate with any other node within the network
Provide anonymized distributed DNS and hosting platforms
Provide preferred Operating system kernel and runtime drivers for these operations
Provide new secure protocols that are able to transmit and receive data exceedingly quickly maybe with a driver for popular operating systems to establish direct access to the CPU, memory, and I/O devices+disks functions of the computer unit
Provide a worthy routing method that for distributed network transfers-- making certain that any traffic reaches it’s intended destination
Make sure no government or authority of any country can find a means to track or solicit user information and or intercept transmissions
Provide means to integrate any existing technology platform to allow devices to interact and connect with this system
Provide peer to peer network file sharing without personally identifiable information
?Create non-large prime number based encryption that can run on any computer.?

Recombinet
: Recombiac : FutureNet : Virtual Reality / Experience Space

Goals:

Time Dilation : The
ability to control the experience of time in virtual space
relative to the physical universe.

This is similar to the principle at work while dreaming-- one can
experience compressed time or having the experience of going
through hours to years of experience while dreaming-- while in
the waking world it takes place in a matter of minutes to hours.

Preservation of Creative Works over Infinite Time :

The ability to maintain a database / catalogue of all of the publicly
accessible works of humanity as well as experience space information
voluntarily uploaded to the network.

Simulation of Quanta : The ability to simulate physical atoms and
structures and interactions as they happen in the physical
phenomenal world in the VR/Experience space. This would help
people to make it so that they can see what the results of an
action / reaction will be before ever taking the experiment into
the physical, phenomenal world. Saves millions of hours of labor
and prevents unneeded use of natural resources in the physical
world.

Simulation of DNA : Simulation of organisms and life itself
within the VR/Experience space.

Simulation of Sensory Streams Including Tastes and Smells as well as
Previously Inconceived / New Senses / Mental or Consciousness
Function : Self explanatory.

Body Encapsulation Unit : Takes care of all bodily needs while
one is sojourning / voyaging in the VR/Experience space.

Full Body Telepresence : The ability to project one’s virtual
form virtually anywhere in the known cosmos and in the
VR/Experience space world.

Artificial Intelligence : The guidance mechanism that routinely
monitors biofeedback and responds to user input as to the meta
levels of experience and controls what happens within them if the
user unexpectedly does something that creates irregular
biofeedback.

Ability Store / Remove Memories and Retrieve Them : To be able to
upload consciousness/memories to the computer at will and
retrieve / replay them at will.

The Ability of the Computer Unit to Create Physical Human Bodies
and Upload Consciousness to Them

If something should happen to one’s material body, the computer
units will be able to recreate an individual if they choose to
re-enter the world through a human birth. This may or may not
take place in an artificial womb.

Neural Interface without Physical Connection to Body : Unlike the
Matrix, there will be no jack into the back of the neck of an
individual or unseemly mechanical interconnects attached to the
human body.

All Based around Discovery and All Working Together in Harmony :
The values and morals of the future people will operate in
connectivity and awareness of free will and respect for all life.

Cultural Exchange and Diplomacy : The original foundation for
this net will be centred around connecting people on a global
level and strive to resolve misunderstandings between all people.
There will be instantaneous, accurate language translation for
all people to be able to understand any other person by whatever
means possible.

Social Nets All over Earth : Just as social networking is popular
today, people will be able to share / keep private information
and content with all other people. People will have access to
true, lasting free association with any individual, anywhere.

3-D Supercomputing, All over Earth Making One Huge System :
Eventually the technology will be able to simulate entire worlds,
galaxies and star systems. People will be able to figure out how
to space-travel with through remote probes that send back
real-time information in and on distant galaxies.

Freedom from Disease, Poverty, Hunger/Famine, War, Distress :
With this new technology everyone will be able to resolve all
physical needs and issues with a majority of one’s life in
interactions within the VR/Experience space. This will free up
natural resources and allow humans to master genetic engineering
through carrying forth simulations instead of horrific
manipulation of real organisms.

Ultimately Sustainable Forever - The system will, in the
background learn how to optimize all elements of it’s own
maintenance, power sources and the needs of all of living
humanity.

World Wide VR Operating System : In the initial phases of
designing this system, everyone will connect using Recombinet to
create the world’s largest cluster/decentralized/distributed
computing unit. A like concept of relational information within the system : Scale of the Universe.com

Huge Amalgamations of Many That Had Passed Before :

The VR/Experience space, coupled with AI will create a
personality representation of already departed humans from all
content available within the information space. There will be a
huge crystal of AI personalities in cohorts and communications
with one another.

Limitless Creativity : With computers we can easily reproduce
something in synthetic/artificial reality and duplicate objects
in this world to 3D objects in the VR/Experience space. This
means that if you have a guitar, the computer can digitize it and
make it so that object can be shared with others, saving man
hours and labour to produce or copy actual physical objects. Eliminate
time and cost of production, give time for creativity and productivity
for all.

Experience in VR/Experience Space Translates to Physical Universe
: If you learn how to play a guitar in the VR/Experience space,
you can take that knowledge, skill, awareness and motor
coordination with you into your live, physical body, and mind.

Personality Individual Profiles Made by Each User Determines
Experiential Libraries : Requires user to authorize which
dimensions of the VR space they are open to and will like to
connect.

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Similar story here, started following MaidSafe when I think the project was called Perpetual Data, initially from David Irvine presentation at Google Scalability conference. At the time, I mostly did not understand the suggested implementation but got sold on the vision. I would check back every 6 months or so to see if that “secure dropbox clone” was ready.

For lack of news after the Facebook page migration, which coincided with the addition of NAT-traversal capabilities to the Routing layer, I thought the project was dead. Until in the middle of July a bit more than a year and a half ago I noticed all the source code had been released on GitHub without much fanfare, and I decided to try to compile it myself and see if it was more than vaporware. I ran into compilation errors and decided to write on the dev mailing list only to see David reply within 15 min. of me posting and then spent the rest of the day debugging the compilation process with me! Then I knew I was seeing a level of dedication that is beyond ordinary.

In between the initial discovery of the system and now, I finished a bacc. degree in computer engineering, a master in computer science, and got into a PhD . I am finally feeling like I can contribute something to core of the project. I am currently “re-deriving” the core algorithms for the autonomous system part from first principles in order to convince myself and others that the approach is sound, and make the implementation easier to explain. At the same time, I am touring Universities in Europe to get feedback from other researchers. I am currently in Belgium and maybe going to Portugal at the beginning of March. It does seem at the moment that there is a novel contribution from a research perspective on the way XOR space is used to derive consensus from a subset of all the nodes.

Although it has never been marketed as such, MaidSafe project has a significant “researchy” part to it. Turning a valid interesting research ideas into a successful commercial product can take up to 10-15 years of development I have been told in a conference last October and the most critical part is in-between the initial research funding phase, where the work is mostly conceptual and you only have to create a good enough prototype, and the later commercialisation where the risk is sufficiently low that many investors are confident to chime in. MaidSafe seems to have got through (or getting through) the middle part.

I do think that stating that “The Decentralized Internet is here” on the main page of the website while no one has an installer or some way of joining the network is misleading and creates false expectations on the time frame for completion. Everyone can have its own estimate for when it will actually happen. I am personally comfortable with an actual release 1-2 years down the road. In the meantime, I do think we can contribute as a community to make the project a success sooner by picking things the dev do not have time to do and make them happen.

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Well well, @abittner has started something off here :slight_smile: Who would have imagined erick was a long time follower of the project, there were no indicators I picked up on.

a successful commercial product can take up to 10-15 years of development

There you have it, ahead of the norm for such an ambitous project and there’s been nowhere near that time in actual development time.

I am personally comfortable with an actual release 1-2 years down the road.

I think the crowd sale would definitely have been misleading with that time to release.

In the meantime, I do think we can contribute as a community to make the project a success sooner by picking things the dev do not have time to do and make them happen.

Please elaborate

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