Automating business and government

I ve been thinking about how a lot of administration could be automated on safe. So for example say my business takes deliveries as part of the supply chain needed for my manufacturing business. Currently I would need someone to sign for the delivery. The invoice would then need to be filed and entered into my system. The invoice would then need to go through accounts and be signed off. The company who delivered my product then need to paid.

On safe network I could create a smart contract which says when delivery is taken it it scanned into my system, a timer is then set and if no action is taken in 30 days then the supplier is sent his payment and the transaction is logged onto my accounts database. Secure and immutable records autonomously kept.

Also lots of governmental organisations could be automated. Take for example the environment agencies. Lots of sensors could be reading data about our environment and autonomously calculating data sets from the inputs. The data could then be public and immutable. Maybe even drones/robots could be taking the samples. As the drones/robots will be controlled autonomously by the safe network then it becomes hard to make them act corruptly. Therefore we can trust the data they give us as it is fed instantly into an immutable database.


Glad to read that. It is often writen that ‘governments’ would take Safe as a threat, when in fact for many reasons they would be among the most interested users.

That being said , I too was wondering if some CDD sensor output for instance, could be piped directly into some immutable data, with the guaranty that nothing could get in the middle and alter data.

I was thinking that sensors could be designed to be tamper proof with some kind of tamper circuit built in but i suppose that would not stop someone tricking the sensor somehow. Could possibly create a system where looking after sensors is more profitable than tricking them. Also if there were enough cheap sensors it would become difficult to manipulate them all.

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Glad to read that. It is often writen that ‘governments’ would take Safe as a threat, when in fact for many reasons they would be among the most interested users.

Yes I think that governments will need to automate as automation decreases work available to humans then tax revenues will decrease. Its a self fulfilling system.

My opinion is with both state and business you automate away hierarchy making them leaderless. Leadership down to its very concept is the problem as its just another shade of slavery that leads to the full blown institution and stuff like servant based leadership is rare to the point of oxymoron.

Replace the structure with an automated decentralized colaborative that has at its a core real time blinded decision making system.

More than this under stand that what we need are relationships based on trust and friendship not fear and coercion. So even more powerful is small groups of friends, 8-14 people, really liquid with people who come and go. They share some values, norms and ideology. In friendship each is valued has autonomy and is trusted. Ideology would tend to recognize the value and power of such groups as opposed to non cooptation (bribery) and the value of remaining free. There are no roles, groups don’t have names. Technology isn’t needed, no rosters, no schedules, no budgets. There aren’t necessarily even regular or planned face to face meetings. No one tells anyone else what to do that is not what friends do. Their are no “should” or guilting

One thing these groups can have which is very powerful is endless inquiry. Inquiry is not about producing answers every question is met with another question even in dialog but everything is questioned constantly over and over. Literally answering questions with questions is normal. Understand there are no answers but the questions constantly and seriously posed check ego and maintain flexibility and open mindedness.

These groups especially when they spread can defeat any kind of hierarchy including the most determined states, militaries, corporations, intelligence agencies, armed AI drones and they are needed now that the tech of hierarchy had brought us automation as the solution to the economic problem and has outlived its usefulness. It turns out we are the ultimate technology.


Completely agree. I can really see safe providing the infrastructure to start experimenting with these kinds of ideas.

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Reading this ATM. Touches on a lot of the things you mentioned previously.


Why do we need government for this? Why does this need to be a “government” agency in order to have an environment monitoring system on SAFE? Why not have an independent autonomous system on SAFE that the government references instead?


Good point. I suppose the transitional period would involve using autonomous systems under the current governmental system then at some point government would fade away.

Why do we need the current government at all in order to do this?

That book was quite interesting. Almost finished it now. His suggestion is to create a cryptocurrency where new coins are created in response to jobs being performed.

I found this summary of the concepts in the book:

It reminds me a bit of the world created in the Sci-Fi series Daemon by Daniel Suarez (Daemon & Freedom, mostly in the latter book)


How about we get rid of jobs? One person working for another is slavery.

That is in a way what’s suggested in the book that Guybrows posted. When someone does a job they don’t really do it for another person, but for themselves and the community. There’s no employer, if someone for example wrote an article on Wikipedia, new money could be created as payment for that. New money is created when someone does something deemed useful by the community.

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Strictly, slavery is slavery. Getting paid for writing an article or doing whatever someone else is not able to, is something different. There is still real slavery in the world, mixing these up places the problems of the majority of all middle class in the entire civilized world, on the same level as a coltan miner in Kongo pressured by local mobs to work in extreme hazard for practically nothing. Oh btw, so that you and I, poor slaves working for a boss, can have cell phones (need coltan).
Not that I don’t prefer to not have to be employed, but perspective does make it hard to confound these things. There are other words that are more descriptive of the mental, emotional (and what-not) prison world middle class live in. If one wants to go down that ultra-generalizing path of course :slight_smile:


We don’t. But as long as they are collecting taxes then they are doing the governing

Yeah the book says that automation will get rid of jobs so we need to think of new systems to get people working. I know some people wouldn’t have a problem with no work. They could keep themselves busy but that doesn’t work for everyone. Also it looks at replacing the fractional reserve centralised banking cartels for a productivity based system where production of things creates the new money. In a way safe network is kind of doing that. New coins are only created when someone is providing resource. I suppose that keeps inflation in check and the total supply is a function of activity.

I’ve heard this referred to as proof of participation

Very interesting discussion. I’ve been thinking of developing such a system in SAFE myself, and test it out in my own town and community. The town has been going thru a “paper money” crises, because all the ATMs are being blown up by robbers (this is Brazil). Credit card is the most used medium, but it has lots of problems, the best solution being some sort of exchange that could be done by using phones or a digital signature.

I think we have all we need to start developing applications that could use a Proof-of-Community-Participation protocol, where every citizen can start and participate in discussions about community issues (like Github), and settle on rewards for those who have participated and have been acknowledged to having solved the issues. That being how the currency would be “mined” or put into circulation.

Maybe when SAFE actually launches we can have something like this ready to roll and starting testing out around the globe :slight_smile:


Collecting taxes != governing. I believe Donald Trump’s time on the golf course’s (or Obama’s, or Steve Harper’s, or Bill Clinton’s trips to pleasure resorts, or Trudeau’s photo ops, etc etc) prove that. One should not assume money in = money out that is spent on the people because it quite often is not.

Getting paid isn’t enough if one doesn’t have true legally recognized autonomy to self ownership. If one does not have a legal right to own property but rather simply exchanges the possession of someone else’s property that’s a serious problem for self ownership. As are concepts like debt based fiat currency or debt slavery.

I see the concept of robotic automated “work” much like the concept of the washing machine. The humble washing machine was actually quite revolutionary. It freed up women and allowed them to wash clothes quickly which would have otherwise taken up their entire day doing it by hand. This meant more time to allow them to do other jobs or seek out careers etc. NOW think of the washing machine itself or other household appliances. When I was a kid we had an old manually fed washer which was essentially a big tub with a wringer that you had to manually feed clothes through (and that could be quite dangerous if you got some stray body part caught in it). Fast forward to 2017 and we have smart washer and dryer units that are energy efficient, have all kinds of fancy settings AND can even order your soap and other laundry accessories for you! BUT guess what! There are still people who are poor, or nostalgic, who still cherish that old washer with the wringer that I had when I was a kid. Hell right now I’ve got an old Kenmore apartment washer and dryer set and it works great. Old doesn’t mean non functional. And perhaps most pertinant of all are the people who CANNOT AFFORD or have no space for their own washer and dryer units at all! Having automation tech available does not mean EVERYONE will have ACCESS to automation tech.

Yes you probably could build robot waiters, robot customer service people, hell robot whores, but can everyone afford these things or will they have access to them? Also we already have robotic customer service in the form of automated answering services at call centers. But anyone who has dealt with such machines probably has had the experience of just wanting to talk to a bloody human being instead of going through options 1, 2, 3, ad nauseum. Automating services can mean a hit to customer experience and/or efficiency.

After the industrial revolution humans were treated like machines but now after the information age has begun that practice is ending since we have started developing many machines to do those industrial age jobs. So the question is what work do HUMANS need to do? Humans are good at creative work and abstracting. We have highly developed adaptive and general intelligence. More than that we have highly developed emotional and spiritual capabilities. These are qualities robots simply do not have. Can a robot understand the concept of humor? Can a robot feel love, loyalty or passion? Can a robot feel jealousy, anger or hate? How would a robot process these emotions? How would a robot relate to a human, a human that does feel all these things, if a robot does not feel these things? If a robot cannot feel emotions how is a robot different than a psychopath? Does said robot operate with Asamov’s three laws? What security prevents tampering or general security of the robot? How is the safety of humans ensured, or is it? All these questions need to be answered but the issue of automation of jobs seem to be on everyone’s mind which seems a bit insane to me.

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I disagree completely. It is time for honesty in language as a matter of survival. Leadership = slavery. Job = slavery. Every form of slavery is just a slippery slope to the full blown institution of people as property. I think the proper response is I’d give you the shirt off my back but as a matter of self defense I’d rather kill you than take orders from you.

Automation means the economic problem has been solved and hierarchy has run its course and served its purpose, we get rid of it or it leads to our extinction.

@Guybrows I don’t think we want to get people working. I can see trying to foster an environment that helps people want to exercise to stay healthy but I don’t think any kind of work exploitation thing is desirable, better we help people find their voices to resist exploitation.

@intrz I LOVED those two Suarez books. Gone through all of his books but those are the best. Mathew Sobel P.hD! The crushing power of phone trees ha!