Are Safe Vaults servers or not: a discussion


#225

Yes that defined the SAFE network as a whole. And like the DB project (mentioned above) the nodes are not servers because they do not act by themselves and only collectively can they be called a server. In other words the nodes (vault is one component of a node) need to come together in agreement for anything to be done.

So yes in no way shape or form can a vault or the node which the vault is a part of be called a server.

Pretty clear from that statement.


#226

From that metaphorical view they see the safe network as a huge server and would not see the components. Now as they zoomed in they see

  1. A huge server (being the network as a whole)
  2. components within that server being sections
  3. components within the sections being nodes
  4. components within the nodes being vault, crust, PARSEC, and so on
  5. programs that define the operations and protocols used.

#227

If you understand what’s being attempted to communicate but act as though there is deception or wrongness going on, then yes, it becomes trolling and I’d rather do without it, as would many, I think. My opinion.

On the other hand, suggesting a better way to communicate about it would be a good move.


#228

No malice you say … let’s do a bit of a dive into your comments …

A lie by definition is a DELIBERATE deception. Versus what most seem to be telling you here - that the terms ‘serverless’ and ‘vaults’ are a means of expressing the differences between the traditional Internet’s means of storing and retrieving data via a centralized means and the Safe Network’s means of doing such. Effectively this amounts to a semantic difference of opinion and not a lie.

Pot --> Kettle:black

Implying a lie is itself slanderous … again, Pot --> Kettle:black

I don’t know how old you are or what you’ve studied, but your hypocrisy is over the top and demonstrates an unwillingness on your part to fully analyze your own point of view.

None here are obligated to give you a different point of view. Why should we care to help you understand when you are so clearly trolling.

So … If you are not willing to PROVE that there is a deliberate deception or apologize for your attack on the character of the team with regards to your ‘lie’ comment, then I suggest that the community should start ignoring you. Trolls do not deserve attention.


#229

This is how everyone except one person here sees it.
I wonder exactly how this discussion has helped the project forward, or contributed with anything really?

This look painfully much to me as inane hairsplitting. I do care about the meaning of words, in system design and programming it is essential to get the definitions right. But there never was any real question about the definitions here? Everyone (except one person) stood at the same position they do now.

But it all got a whole lot of attention from the right people.

I can’t say why it was so important, but it still has me wondering about the last post I wrote in this topic. The principle seems off to me.


#230

You will see this sometimes and it is occasionally for good reason. In this case (before it went for quite so long though) I had pinged our marketing PR team etc. to read the convo and follow it as it is likely that:

  1. Such criticisms need to be understood
  2. We need a way to close those kinds of distractions down

So there was another purpose for me anyway, but yea I figured an hour or so tops, not several monotonous days. It went way too far and worse possibly obscured more pertinent conversations and criticisms.


#231

Just on this one quickly. I do genuinely hope you take a step away from this particular environment once the network gains traction.

We’re all pretty spoiled on the Forum for now, you’re genuine folk at Maidsafe, the access we get is something that isn’t taken for granted.

There will come a point though where success equals a weight with respect to managing and interacting with folk here.

Even with a delegated community manager say in place to handle these type of things I probably see folks like the OP multiplying like little Gremlins (the cost of success really) and this place being/becoming a bit of a time sink for you guys in the not too distant future.

Apologies if I’m asking an unanswerable question but has there been any forward thinking about how to delegate/manage this load?

Your nature is to simply help it’s who you are but as Maidsafe over time tries to step away from too close an association with the Network itself is there any chance one of your biggest allies (the community) becomes something of a weight internally on you guys?

Sorry to derail the topic just something I and some others I’ve introduced to the project have wondered about.


#232

Mostly scale the company out to accommodate. As this happens we all get involved to a lesser detail in each area, if at all. So it’s just growth in responsibility based roles really.


#233

Since everyone is having some opinion on what is server and what is a vault, here is mine.

One thing, I hope everyone here would agree is, what, a network of computers/devices is. Based on how these computers communicate with eachother, it is possible to refer to them, as a server, client, peer etc.

Safecoin by definition is much different from the traditional client-server or peer-to-peer architectures, though it uses a lot of features used in traditional architectures.

Now trying to retrofit a term in a new paradigm in to terms defined within older paradigms, is a sure recipe for a disaster. Thus it is best to define new terms for a new paradigm.

To ask if a vault is a server will be a fruitless effort. Though they might have some similar attributes apples are not oranges. But if you take the definition of apple and put much effort you might be able to prove that an orange fits into the same definition, so it is an apple. Would it serve any purpose depends.


#234

@febinkk Agree

Actually there are some similarities with some other decentralised systems and often they use “Node” to denote a computer that is, well a node, in the decentralised architecture.

So I’d say the easiest and simplest term to adopt is “Node” and a vault is only one component of the node anyhow.

And as David said a node cannot operate on its own and is only a component in the huge server called the SAFE network. So in fact it cannot be a server since it is only a component that cannot serve data without all the other components in the section. ie cannot act on its own like a server can