Are Safe Vaults servers or not: a discussion

" Is this the way it’s really going down?

Should have known better when you came around

Should have known better that you were gonna make me cry

And now it’s breaking my heart to watch you run around

'Cause I know that you’re living a lie

That’s ok, baby, 'cause in time you will find

What goes around, goes around, goes around

Comes all the way back around" (Justin TImberlake, what goes around comes around) /Peace out

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with a simple example, I showed you that vaults are software that will work on home computers … From here on calling my home computer server is trolling…

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Oh but it can feel like one :wink:

IMHO If you want to call farmers servers then fine, if you want to say udp is not networking, then that is also fine. If you like red instead of blue, then that is also fine. If you say anything different from others, then that is also fine. None of it needs to be true or correct for you to state these things and that is also fine, in fact, you can have your opinion about anything you want and it is fine by me. I would just appreciate a bit of decorum and morality in the discussion. I am not partial to my name being used in ways that you have, but that is again your prerogative.

It’s all your choice chap and you are welcome to your thoughts, any time, any place and for whatever reason.

A discussion about labels or names is cool, but perhaps one for its own thread like this, then if the folk care they can read it. Otherwise, it kills a nice update the team made from some pretty hard work and thinking. So this thread will serve the purpose of that space to pontificate, ponder and debate a word.

Thanks, @draw for doing the legwork there to separate this out, it really helps and leaves the dev update thread about the update.

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No but Safe Vaults are servers because they … serve data!!

And here are some of the fastest servers:

On another note, please, always tip your servers. It’s good manners.*

* Except in Japan or Korea, among a few other places, where they are actually paid by their employers.

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Here you go, server === server in the commonly accepted defention

  • A single vault is a server
  • A single vault is not a server

0 voters

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And Australia and the UK and New Zealand.

not replying to you now @JoeSmithJr

Yea my watch is a server too, it serves data back to the PC. Oh and my wall clock since it serves data to my eyes, and the TV set is a server since it serves TV programs, and the petrol (Gas for USA) station serves petrol and goodies. Oh dear so many things are servers, we should just forget all the normal definitions for those things and what they do and just call them servers too. Oh lets ignore the term in the usual sense

I think that one has forgotten that the fundamentals includes the term

So while everything can be a server we humans have decided to use other terms for the majority of everything_as_servers so that we can better understand what is happening.

So when I want petrol for the car I don’t say I am going to the server, but rather I am going to the petrol station. Thus the usual definition is petrol station rather than server or gas server.

The usual definition of server is well defined for those in the industry and the public also have picked up on that. That is a server like a web server or a nntp server or an email server and so on. That is is usual usage of the term server. Not the one where everything becomes called a server because it responded to a request. My wall clock is requested by me when I look at it and it gives the data I requested. Or my PC that responds to syn packets or browser that responds with headers when the web site requests them as part of the protocol.

The phrase (in the usual definition of a server) should have been a good indicator that we are not talking black and white but using good old communication skills to get across a piece of information (oh dear a server again ugggg) to the audience reading it.

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Thank you, for arguing my point for me.

Thats not like a web server or a nntp server or an email server.

Thats not like a web server or a nntp server or an email server.

Thats not like a web server or a nntp server or an email server.

Thats not like a web server or a nntp server or an email server.

A vault however, is like a web server or a nntp server or an email server.

fyi: I hadn’t that much inspiration in choosing the name of this topic: ‘Are Safe Vaults servers or not: discuss’. Maybe not a good idea to encourage further discussion :slight_smile:
Edit: I’ve changed it to ‘…: a discussion’.

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and as an ordinary home computer, right? :slight_smile: :slight_smile: :slight_smile:

the hardest lesson one can learn is a little humility and acknowledge his mistake … Or being anonymous you can miss?

Hear that sound above your head. That should be a clue to how clueless that statement of yours is.

But still a server by your definition.

Lol by your definition it is. But is this where you are starting to realise that some servers by your definition are not servers in the usual usage of the definition of server.

Of course its not a server like them, but still a data server, the data is digital now-a-days and when it displays the tv program on my tablet that it received from the TV station then it is a real server. But it is still serving data (information is data) to me if I sit in front of the TV and watch it.

And it still fits your definition of a server.

Yea but it is like your definition of a server.

No its not. a web server is quite different to what a vault does. Almost as different as the TV to my eyes. Different protocols, different type of data, different operations running. What web server does consensus using close nit two way interaction with a PEER? Have you learnt about consensus yet, or what a section actually is, and that might explain your misunderstandings.

NO a vault is like a node in a P2P network. And that is not called a server, in the usual usage of “server”

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https://www.cockroachlabs.com/docs/stable/frequently-asked-questions.html

This is a database server that uses peer-to-peer and the gossip protocol. So I should tell them to rename their instances to vaults?

A vault is a like a server in a P2P network.

Wow did you even read what they said. They even say you can run it on a computer, or a server or a … So even they do not say the computer it can run on is a server. (Read under “does it scale”)

And they do not call the individual computers servers but they call them Nodes. Just the same as the SAFE network.

When your cluster spans multiple nodes (physical machines, virtual machines, or containers), newly split ranges are automatically rebalanced to nodes with more capacity.

No need they don’t call the nodes servers anyhow.

Hahaha lets just redefine things again. Nope a true distributed P2P network does not call the peers servers. Otherwise it would be S2S.

Do you understand what a Peer to Peer network is?

Ever worked with distributed file systems? I guess not by your displayed lack of knowledge on these matters.

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They call them Servers in several places on that page as well.

You’ve again just taken one single quote out of an entire page. To prove a point that a node has no relationship to a server. I disagree.

No because when vaults talk to vaults they ARE peers, I never said they weren’t.

Yea because they start off talking of what it can run on then move to what they envision it should run on. So node is not a server, but you can run it on a server. Also the clusters are called servers and that is what they refer to when talking of servers. Read it fully.

And thank you for the link, sounds like an interesting project. Might read more tomorrow.

Lol, hear that whistling sound again. Missed the point didn’t you, maybe your lack of knowledge/experience is the cause of that. Let me help you here, I was not suggesting you did not say that. What I am saying is that in a peer to peer network the peers are sending data to and fro just like the vaults are in the safe network. But to call vaults servers means that in P2P networks the PEERs are also servers and thus by definition it is a S2S network. Comprehend? You call me uninformed and not able to know what the industry uses, wow.

You are missing the point too, a cluster of iPads working together will form a database server. In the common definition of the word. 3 iPads are now working as a server for anything that wants to query them. They are in their own right servers.

EDIT

I can’t find vault in that page anywhere, or made up words that define it as something special.

No I didn’t, stop making statements about me that are untrue.

Yes you have because you told me I could not call upon industry standard which others follow and had to get the others to speak directly to you, and you had the arrogance to think you are happy to tell them the facts. Thus I was uninformed and unknowledgable. Me thinks that because I am accused just giving uneducated opinion that is what is being done by the accuser.

Love your convoluted thinking. That means that because in a real server there are many processes (separate components) that because all of them together is a server then the components must be servers also. Your logic shows a lack of real understanding of how things can and do work.

Vaults are just that vaults and not servers in the usual usage of the term server in the context of the internet. Just because all the vaults in the network make up the safe network which can be considered a huge server does not mean the components are also servers in their own right. Nope they are components that together make the singular huge server that is the SAFE network. Its a P2P type of network, not a S2S type of network. Just like other P2P networks are not S2S networks by normal usage of the terms.

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I agree.

I Agree.

I agree.

They are all individually capable out acting as a server within this huge server. So when a CLIENT requests data from this P2P network of servers. They may be severed by 1 or many individually servers.

Please feel free to call upon industry standards through IEEE references or inviting other professionals into this conversation.

If they are called servers in the usual sense then its not a Peer to Peer network. This is by definition. Not opinion nor conjecture.

So which is it, P2P or S2S?

You can’t keep convoluting different things into the one thing.

There have already been a couple above. How many do you need before you will listen. Oh thats right you will not, you’ll tell them where they are wrong like you already have done to the others people in this conversation. Really childish attempt sorry to say.

I’ve said this several times.

Vaults talking to Vaults is a P2P network because they are acting as PEERS.

Vaults responding to a Safe-Browser, are acting as SERVERS.

A vault is a server in the normal definition of the word, even if it has other properties such as P2P connectivity with other vaults.