APP Developer Rewards (Discussion)

It doesn’t work like that. The network doesn’t know if or how or where the app is executed. As long as you have an active connection to the network it will accept request from it, regardless of the app that you have running on your computer.

If the network wants to measure anything, it’s gonna be only based on the request it gets. How long the app has been running or from where it is loaded is irrelevant from a network perspective.

Love this thread. I’m glad somebody is thinking about this because I couldn’t think for one minute how one would make a profitable App on this network but this has relayed some insight into the inner workings. Thanks again guys!

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I initially used to think that as well.

But in reality it will depend how popular it gets. You don’t want it to be too popular - although you can’t do anything about it anyway - because what’s popular will get cached and so the most popular chunks will make you exactly $0/day (in any currency you wish).

The ideal level of chunk popularity will be (something like) 1 requests every X+1 seconds, where X is the cache expiration timeout (assuming it’s going to be fixed). But as a vault owner you won’t be able to do much about it.

It seems to me there’s not much farmers can do about this, except perhaps - depends on how the economics of the coin will work out (or not) - kill “low yielding” vaults and generate new one until you “raise” a vault with some “good” yielding chunk(s) :slight_smile:
Supposedly this won’t pay, but we’ll see.

I was thinking about the above approach, and it seems it will be difficult.

  • Time investment needed to gain rank.
  • No guarantee that popular chunks will remain popular.
  • Most likely get a mix bag of chunks every time a new vault is created.
  • Some chunks that are not popular today may become popular tomorrow.

The time, energy, and costs, to “maximize” a high yielding vault maybe more costly than just adding more storage and bandwith. But we’ll see.

Silly idea of the moment:
I’ll make a horse race game like the one you see in themeparks. Each horse represent a vault I run and when the vault gets a GET request the horse goes a little further. And I let people bet on which horse will win the race :slight_smile:

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First SAFE Network Gambling App!

I think you just found another killer App. Cause I really want that feature just for kicks and giggles.
Make sure I can name my “horse vaults” and let others bet their Safecoins on it. Haha!

@DavidMtl I think you should post that App idea here. It’s a fun way to see how my vaults are doing.

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Lol alright, I’ll add it at lunch, with stats for horses and all that :slight_smile:

There

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What if as a farmer and an app user you auto “support” apps you use more than others? Meaning the percentage that a chunk of data from that app ending up on your drive would be higher but not your own data somehow (maybe that is a moot point because no one knows whose data is whose. I have no idea if this makes sense or not. Just throwing things out.

EDIT: The thought process is that the app’s community supports itself. Then you can also go along and say app supporters who receive GET requests for the app transfer a portion of the (lotto ticket for farming rewards) to the app’s “owner”. What are the pros and cons to this? How could we game a system like this?

Is there a concept of shuffling blocks around even if your drive never goes down? I guess this would be counter to the whole caching concept which is good for the network. When more caching is done do old caching blocks go away and free up space for new content?

Yes its a Least Recently Used (LRU) cache

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I found the above comment from this thread LICENSING: Are you dead set on GPL3?

Collective App Store?

It would be convenient to have a Collective App Store. Small and Big developers can upload their App along with many others. This gives them more exposure, and consumers have a one-stop-shop to find Apps. We have talked about App stores before.

Credit to @happybeing hitting a sweet spot about sharing revenue.

I’m curious how a Collective App Store can operate. It should be explored further in this thread. Since you guys/girls are smarter than I… I was hoping you can help answer some of these questions.

Questions

  1. How would Apps share revenue?
  2. Would there need to be a Master App Browser that combines all other apps into itself?
  3. How would App Developers know they were getting paid honestly?

Im sure there are more questions, but I have a gut feeling this will become terribly exciting!

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I’m guessing this could be handled with a smart contract system. Being part of the store would require apps to register a shared wallet for pooled income, and separate wallet for earnings taken from the pool for each author. As the pool reaches a threshold, the contract issues earning to all qualifying app authors. Participation in the store would need to be tied to this mechanism too. So if all that can be made part of the contract the maths would do the rest. Just guessing tho! :slight_smile:

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What if someone created a popular messaging app on the network and decided to increase the number of GET requests as a means to increase their safecoin earnings? Could that be a way to game this system?

Would the number of ‘downloads’ of an app be a beneficial metric when determining how this 10% is earned by the app creators? Is there any way that human ‘engagement’ (a hugely important metric) could be quantified and used as a means of app reward? Perhaps time spent by users on with the application open would also be a good metric - time after all is a finite resource… at least for humans :slight_smile:

I don’t think you’ll get farming rewards for simple messaging. If you share files as messages you need to spend safecoin on them, so that takes care of that. And then if you want to use an application that ‘GETS’ hugely on a single file that file will eventually get cached and no more farming will come from that file. You have to spend safecoin on files, or people need to spend safecoin on files. If they’re getting them back then that’s legit.

Key is if you target some one file eventually your app won’t generate farming for others and you won’t get app rewards. It’s better time spent making something useful than building to game the system. You’ll likely not get too far with that.

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@neo, you may want to add this thread to the OP. It goes into detail about various payment solutions that could also apply to PtP.

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I say no. Producers has a choice to sell the datastructure to somebody. Set it as private(shared+key). The key is a serial number to the datastructure. You sell the keys to the users.

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Doesn’t attaching a smart contract give the ability todo this ?

This is what I’m asking myself also and what does prevent somebody from the chosen group, making short after he downloaded the app and trying it, to fork it, make small changes, and publish its own version which maybe gets voted into the store …

Thank you! Sorry, I really don’t mean to give out incorrect info! I just try to understand the info.

But you totally answered my question. Thank you very much for your thorough reply, I really appreciate the time

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And to everyone else, I can’t believe any of you are against PtP.

If you bought SafeCoin, and care about it’s major success, and want to see it grow in utility and price, you NEED a strong network, and PtP (if done right, of course, but MaidSafe has done so many things right so far so I believe they can do it, or at least give the world a solid start on it) can make the network SOOOO much more attractive to data producers in every field.

If people can make money, everyone in every corner of the world will be inspired and very motivated to create useful, world-changing content across all the arts, sciences, entertainment mediums, etc etc and SAFE will EXPLODE in use and popularity.

PTP MAY BE HARD / COMPLICATED TO FIND THE RIGHT BALANCE, BUT IT’S ABSOLUTELY ABSOLUTELY ESSENTIAL TO OUR SUCCESS HERE

If the economics don’t work, it will fail in its goals. That failure may be severe enough to suffocate the network before it ever gets off the ground. That really would be a terrible thing, not just for investors, but freedom lovers alike.

We must not let idealism blind us to reality.

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Did you read the threads above and answer the problems raised?

Because I haven’t seen mine addressed, and they are pretty major.

I am all for rewarding users. The network just doesn’t have very good tools for doing so. It is just WAY too stupid. And it ought to be.

Paying for the sake of paying just makes your wealth dwindle.

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