@philip_rhoades as you guessed, there’s history. I don’t want to re-open it, just letting @al_kafir know that I see him mocking and regard it as disrespectful and flawed. This was one of those discussions that went on and on without generating any light, and I don’t have time for that.
The point about fundamental is that once we learn a cognitive process, I think it becomes indistinguishable from intuition. We just have one thought and another follows and the process becomes invisible to us. We learned that this works, so we continue, and only if it stops working will we review the process and look for ways to improve it - for example, we encounter new situations where it doesn’t do as well as we expect. Or indeed, if we discover in some way that there’s an alternative that works even better than what we’ve been doing.
Rational thought is not something we’re born with. We learn it, we identify with it, we apply it everywhere - without considering the automatic nature of the process once it is second nature. We had to learn it, so it is based on our experience. It works! Yet we operate it in exactly the same manner as intuition. Intuition is a logical extension of rational thought - at a higher level - but I’m suggesting intuition also underlies rational thought (or at least something that looks to me indistinguishable from intuition).
I don’t think I can imagine an experiment to distinguish reliable intuition from the cognitive steps involved in rational thought - the only difference is one can be rationalised - but whenever I’ve looked into rationalisation, I find that there are many alternatives. Its just that we settle with one that we like (because it fits into our self or world view). So I’m not convinced by rationalisation - its an after the fact process. We make a story to explain something. We can do exactly the same with intuition, or we can just say it was an intuition.
So I think that when intuition is working reliably it is indistinguishable from each step in a rational process. We follow blindly - like driving a car we don’t have to think about what to do - we just know. I don’t see the difference between that and a highly functioning intuition.
@Al_kafir makes the distinction between intuition and intuitive knowing, which goes back to a conversation we had a long time ago. I don’t see a distinction at this time. He obviously regards intuitive knowing as mystical or magical. I know what magical thinking is, and I can usually tell the difference between someone using intuition to justify some magical proposition and someone who understands and uses intuition rationally. I don’t know what he means by mystical, other than that he likes to lump me into that because I include a spiritual outlook, which is probably the point of difference between us. I think that everything is just based on experience, and I’m not attached to the idea of an external reality that we can learn about. I can’t tell the difference between that and my inner experience. To me an external reality is an assumption, part of a belief system, and I’m open to looking directly into experience for my world view, and integrating scientific materialism as one perspective among many, rather as the building blocks from which everything else can be explained. This is not something I can explain, its something we explore and encounter ourselves, and come to know. I think that’s where things become magical or mystical to some. To me its more a letting go of knowing in the sense of beliefs, and knowing in the sense of intuition. It isn’t magical. I don’t know if its mystical - that has no meaning to me - to me its just where I am. Sometimes we listen to someone explain something and we go, woooah, this feels right. That’s intuitive knowing, but it is not truth, that we only find in our experience as we respond to the knowing.
@philip_rhoades I spent more time on this than I wanted, but thought it would be rude not to try answer your query. I really don’t want to re-open this so hope that explains enough of what I meant in that response to his mocking. @Al_kafir and I agreed to disagree and to leave these issues aside a long time ago, and while he may want to revisit them (he raised this) I don’t.