American education/indoctrination

My class had to pledge our allegiance to the flag in school from a young age and apparently that isn’t a thing anymore but that doesn’t stop the more conservative or “patriotic” people from arguing that children to should have to. How weird is that?!


I don’t get how this rumor is still kicking around that they don’t say the pledge anymore. My daughter graduated last year and my son is this year, both report still saying it every day they were in school.


R.I.P. John Taylor Gatto

A very similar talk when he was in better health, but has music and animation. He’s easier to hear and understand, but the music and video may be distracting for some.

He’s given a huge amount of talks and lectures on his research and has many books on the topic. Was an amazing educator and led an incredibly productive life. Been a huge fan of his for 20+ years. Any search for his full name will give you tons of info on his research and history.

A much longer talk he gave in 2018 discussing a lot more history of the origins of the American education system.

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When I went to high school as an exchange student in the US back in the 80’s, it was strange to me how militarized it was. On some days of the week some students would march around wearing uniforms and carrying flags as part of the curriculum.

I never went to school in the Soviet Union, but the general feeling was the same. Kids being taught how free they are, and constantly preparing for war with the unfree ones looking to invade them.


It’s cause they are the ones who put “god” in the pledge in the first place. Get 'em while they’re impressionable.

…and anything contrary to that is “persecution.”

Brilliant overview of Ivan Illich’s deschooling society from the pinky show…Two formats incase of location related loading issues…

Sorry, but if my life depends on it, I’m going with the Johns Hopkins resident over the autodidact every day of the week.

‘John Hopkins’ is not a prefix synonymous with life saving advice or good health choices…their heavily invested involvement in mediating every aspect of this contrived pandemic - from planning to actualisation…have the former Centre for civilian biodefense strategies well placed to encourage/coerce mass participation in the mrna clinical trials and ensure maximum uptake of their nano tech infested injections…The video contained some very interesting quotes about education from Ivan Illich - I think he is still absolutely right -

2.11 “…The pupil is thereby schooled to confuse teaching with learning, schooled to confuse grade advancement with education, schooled to confuse a diploma with competence. His imagination is schooled to accept service in place of value, medical treatment is mistaken for health care, social work is mistaken for improvement of community life, police protection is mistaken for safety. Military poise is mistaken for…

Here in 2021 people have now been confused enough to completely mistake a lethal shot for a legitimate medical treatment - for a lab derived pathogen - and accepting it under pressure from its stakeholders and beneficiaries? Fear and shock tactics were useful but it looks like the underlying indoctrination process has been generally very successful in suppressing critical thought - thankfully there is ever growing resistance to the propagandist depopulation programme around the world as the drive for further jabs is well underway…

My post was specifically in response to the the quote you provided…

I wouldn’t know. We are fortunate enough to be able to home school. My siblings finally made me an uncle and if they put their kids in school I’ll ask but my brothers wife was one who was perpetuating that they don’t anymore but they should. Given many of their stances they probably aren’t the best sources of information :joy:


I’ve never heard of something like that being part of the curriculum but I wouldn’t be surprised in some areas of the US. Pride is something really engrained through mandated events, particularly spirit day (where I attended). Then sports such as football, basketball, cheerleading.

All of that along with what we are taught in history books where we are always the hero, Columbus being some kind of Saint adventurer and why we celebrate thanksgiving blah blah blah. All a bunch of brainwash.

I don’t really have a problem with loving your country or pride. They should just be in the right context and take a back seat to critical thinking and the ability to self scrutinize.


This was probably a high school that offered the elective Junior Reserve Officers Training Corps (JROTC) program - few and far between. I believe they dress up in uniforms twice a month. It is kind of a preparatory program for those planning to enter the military as an officer. I went to high school in Florida and never heard about any high school offering that program, although there might have been some.

The Department of Defense says this program is now available in about 3000 USA high schools, about 12% of the total. When I went to school in the late 60’s it was much lower, I’m sure.


I think that was it. From what I could tell this was just a normal high school in Georgia.

I went to school in northern Louisiana for a while before Georgia. I had to change families twice for some pretty crazy reasons. Anyway, the “history teacher” in Louisiana was actually the gym coach, and pretty much all he talked about in class was his deer hunting… But I’m sure schools in the US can be pretty different, just like they are in Finland.


And UK! Our first form master in senior school (age 12) was also our English teacher and almost all he did with us was tell us stories about his adventures teaching in a tough Liverpool school, with nuggets of life advice thrown in. Mixed in with reading Bram Stoker’s Dracula to us, and one lesson on grammar. We loved him, but those of us who needed help didn’t learn much of what we needed in English.

Non of my UK schooling was in the least patriotic and we weren’t taught about British Empire, colonialism, slavery but mostly about industrial Revolution, WW1 and WW2, Roman empire. Religion was compulsory in terms of singing hymns in morning assembly, and one lesson a week on religion, mainly Christian but not exclusively.

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Americans are funny - and incredibly badly-educated/stupid in too many cases

May your chosen imaginary pal in the sky be with you all…


Ignorance and stupidity should never be confused. They are very different phenomena.

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Indeed. In fact I even stress this in my CV for support roles

It’s convenient, and it might make you feel good about yourself, but really stupid to pigeon-hole an entire population of 350 million people.


Absolutely – but why do they make it so easy to pigeonhole themselves?

It would seem that despite plenty evidence from this forum and many other sources that not ALL USAnians are completely dumb, there exists a large enough proportion of them who ARE so demonstrably stupid that it is indeed very tempting to make that unfair generalisation that ALL Yanks are dumb as f*ck. I offer you the phenomemon of Donald Trump for starters and the continuing fiscal rape of the US taxpayer by the Israelis in support of this hypothesis.

And you will perfectly correctly reply, NASA, Silicon Valley and many many other examples.

To which I could counter “Ah but your average USAnian is thick as shit and twice as self-centred” and we’d both feel we were on fairly strong ground. I blame Hollywood, the advertising industry and William Randolph Hearst for starters.

Don’t confuse wayward politicians with the average USAnian. Maybe you shouldn’t pay so much attention to Hollywood and the advertising industry.