Alien civilisations/first contact etc

Anders
Anders12m
This thread could be separated into two separate threads. One about websites and another about space aliens in the off-topic section. I absolutely believe there are many civilizations in the universe, even many in our own galaxy. Why haven’t we had official contact with any ETs? How to resolve Fermi’s paradox? That’s easy because all advanced civilizations will have reached and gone beyond a technological singularity. And this means artificial intelligence with godlike powers. Type IV civilizations on the Kardashev scale. And the extremely advanced AI makes sure “young” civilizations like our own can develop on our own until we have become mature enough to make official ET contact. It’s a kind of fully effective “prime directive” enforced by the AI for all civilizations.

Al_Kafir
Al_Kafir3m
Interesting and I agree with a lot of what you say. My questions would focus around feasibility of time-travel, manipulating worm-holes etc and to what extent we can think of these things as “doable”. I totally agree that there is a good chance other civilisations exist, other life forms cetainly. My objections enter into the picture when a “belief system” is created with no evidence for it, yet is linked to science in a dishonest way - pseudo science - not the existence of aliens. I would like to have this discussion in off-topic, so will start a thread. Cheers

Reply

Nonlocal teleportation is theoretically possible I assume. Also note that even with the limit of the speed of light, technology can travel for millions of years easily. The Great Pyramid at Giza was probably built by post-singularity technology as a monument for us to discover the meaning of later when we have enough knowledge.

Ray Kurzweil writes:

“There’s even exponential growth in the rate of exponential growth. Within a few decades, machine intelligence will surpass human intelligence, leading to The Singularity — technological change so rapid and profound it represents a rupture in the fabric of human history. The implications include the merger of biological and nonbiological intelligence, immortal software-based humans, and ultra-high levels of intelligence that expand outward in the universe at the speed of light.” – http://www.kurzweilai.net/the-law-of-accelerating-returns

Then one question is, is our civilization the only or the most advanced one in the entire universe? Seems highly unlikely to me. Such belief is similar to a few centuries ago when people believed Earth was the center of the universe. More likely, especially when we now have found so many earth-like planets, is that there are many other civilizations out there, and several of them more advanced than our own.

Kurzweil estimates that our civilization will reach a technological singularity around the year 2045. Other civilizations have probably reached technological singularities, some millions of years ago.

Hi Anders, I think I’m on the fence a bit here (it would lead to further interesting questions as to whether “intelligence” is a natural consequence of evolution in all instances - I don’t have enough knowledge at this point to form an opinion, is what I’m saying). I would however say it is unlikely that there are not other life forms somewhere even if only simple. I am mindful of the events around the pre-Cambian Explosion, creatures found in the Burgess shale and how simple life was for billions of years prior to that event. ( Wonderful Life by Stephen J Gould is a good source).
I’m also wondering how common it is for amino acids to form proteins, single celled organisms to complex life, abio-genesis etc.
I agree that there are theoretical reasons to believe spacetime can be manipulated

I’m not sure that it is (not thought about it enough), though I know it is possible for small distances with single particles (a few feet I think) - I can’t immediately see how this is possible with anything larger or more complex.

Ok, I’m still with you.

A little disconcerting, but not implausible.

Ok, this is where I start to hear pseudo-science fire alarm bells going off.

This is where I’m alerted that it is not a false alarm and I should make my way to the front of the building Kurzwell is a transhumanist and I just recently learned about transhumanism, it is really weird and cultish as far as I can see.
Seriously I’ve read enough of this stuff and really cannot stomach any more.
If you have any thoughts/arguments of your own that you would like to discuss, then fine, but I’m not reading any Ray Kurzwell unless you can provide me with a very good reason to do so…

Convincing me of why this is the “probable” reason for the building of the Pyramids would be a good start.

My current position would be in allignment with the following statement, if you would like the opportunity to change my mind, please go ahead:

“”It’s as if you took a lot of very good food and some dog excrement and blended it all up so that you can’t possibly figure out what’s good or bad. It’s an intimate mixture of rubbish and good ideas, and it’s very hard to disentangle the two, because these are smart people; they’re not stupid.
—Douglas Hofstadter on Kurzweil[

Dough Hostadter! He wasn’t always been the most positive commenter but I suspect personal tragedy mixed with that tendency to make him even more jaded.

There is a Brit Scifi writer named Peter F. Hamilton whom in his Commonwealth Void Series (Dreaming Void, Temporal Void, Evolutionary Void) who does a great job in my opinion of imagining the the farthest possible outcome for civilizations. In the span of three books he goes from the present to the seeming conceptual limit of the future on political, social and economic grounds, He does it in a way that seems quite respectful of science. What ends up happening in his books is species go “trans-physical,” but at their own pace.
In particular I love how he explores boundary issues and the cages that vex us. Also how he seamlessly mixes every fascinating element of present science- bio, nano, AI, physics along with a good sense of politics and philosophy.

In the series, species, if they survive long enough, in-inevitability check out as they converge and get closer and closer to immortality. He covers one case where the species split- one side going trans-physical and leaving behind the mechanism to do so for its cousins who rejected the tech path and went retro. In my opinion he does great character development and the books are always moving, he never shies from conflict and he does a great critique of religion and its limits and transcending them, but its always transparent and organic to the story. The trans-physicals are so far gone they might as well be dead in his books, but he doesn’t leave that alone either. Very fun books.

I suspect we may have already have gone trans-physical. Look at the psychologist Michael Newton’s book Journey of Souls. Or the finance guy turned new age other Michael Dooley in his “The Top 10 Things Dead People Want You to Know.” Both fun books.

Kurzweil dislikes the term transhumanism because it implies that it’s not human.

How did primitive people manage to build the ceiling of the King’s chamber that has withstood millions of tons of stone blocks above for thousands of years and several earthquakes?

“The King’s Chamber is entirely faced with granite. Above the roof, which is formed of nine slabs of stone weighing in total about 400 tons, are five compartments known as Relieving Chambers.” – http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Pyramid_of_Giza#King.27s_Chamber