A Second (vampire) network attack - discussion

If Nano currency can survive with out any reward system to run nodes and be representative, there is good chance that we will achieve it.
The only reason to run a node is, that it is quite cheap, you can make PoW for your transactions yourself and you support network you like and probably keep value of your coins. The community is also responsible to diversify voting power to as many representatives as possible to mitigate risk of bad behaviour on their owners.

For SafeNetwork that would mean if price is too high, community have to add more storage, if price is too low add more data and any larger holder of SNT should invest time and resources to protect own investment and not wait for others.

Anyway I also think that some other communities will run own fork as replacement of community torrent trackers. They never got reward to seed them and never paid to upload, but with own network, they will have much better control over data and privacy (and after hitting million users will rise the coin price and be super rich :slight_smile:)

Anyway we are the ones who can only grow to be bigger and bigger and we will attract user from all other sites and countries and probably “steal” some from Sia, Storj or Filecoin.

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A new foundation you are proposing here you mean?

My knee-jerk reaction would be a worry about neutrality. The network is designed not to discriminate on data in any way, so it might this be a potential to taint that? A foundation deriving it’s resource from the network itself deciding on what data to store for free?

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Not a new foundation. The current foundation, but with changed activity in support of the network. The way there is an Ethereum Foundation in support of the Ethereum Network

I think you mean the MaidSafe Foundation.

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Yes, thanks for the correction, friend :happyant:

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Yes, well, lent them long term in a subordinated loan (so will be paid back but after any other debts/investor
payouts etc.).

It could be, but IIRC there is no or next to no interest. As a subordinated loan, I cannot demand payment etc. or cause damage to the company. As a CEO I would prefer debt-free ASAP though, so kinda, maybe. All in all, I don’t see any problems or real conflicts at the moment, but always side effects, so happy to keep looking and making sure.

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There is farming rewards, maybe pay the provider rewards, pay the core devs reward and initial once only allocation of 5% of 4B for investors.

Where is there anything going to Maidsafe foundation?

I only see ongoing payments to those providing resources to the network being paid for that.

The foundation owns 50% of the company’s shares. While only the MaidSafe company is the only developer team working on Safe, all 5% of inflation goes to them, with 2.5% going to the foundation.

I believe that a vampire attack can only take place at the beginning of the network (1-3 years), so it does not matter that in the future the foundation will not have the money to support the network, we will be out of this danger.

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There should be some way of providing a bulk rate for these heavyweights, or some other extra incentive. I tend to agree with Dimitar that we need to go out of our way to attract some large data contributors in the early stages of the network.

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How are you calculating the inflation? Running costs will reduce the profits. Wages paid and so on.

There is more likely to be the equivalent of 0.25% profit. with 1/2 going to the foundation. Or a lot less. Its profit and the coins sold to realise the profit in usable spendable money so the foundation can do its core objectives which have do not include building or assisting the network. They have to obey the law for charities if they want to maintain their status.

Also there will be people from outside of Maidsafe doing core development. Well there is already with some others providing PRs

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Sia’s daily trade is 7 million$, FileCoin’s is 250 million$. We will be somewhere between these two numbers. In any case, we are talking about millions of $ a month for MaidSafe and the Foundation…

I’m not sure I agree. They already get economies of scale, and it will be vital to maintain accessibility to ordinary individuals with consumer devices for farming. Let’s not deliberately industrialise it like Bitcoin… otherwise privacy becomes more unattainable for ordinary folk.

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That is trade. Nothing to do with farming. The 5% dev rewards come when farming is done.

The trading is speculation and can see millions traded per day with no increase in coinage.

Also the foundation is a charity and is required by law to benefit those it was set up to benefit.

Also there is a major, huge difference between the amount traded per day and the value of farming per day

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Sia have a foundation that gets some of the inflation and sells in that trade…

That’s right, so my suggestion is to change this to help the network.

That would be up to the trustees of the MaidSafe foundation, which is AFAIK, independent of MaidSafe.

It’s a registered Scottish charity, with the remit of educating kids in technology. There are pretty intense laws in Scotland around charities too, and what can happen, so it would have to be looked into from that sense too I’d have thought.

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That’s pretty much my point. Individuals need something to farm in the beginning. Wikipedia and/or the Internet Archive would still be split up into chunks, distributed throughout the farming community, would they not, even if they were given some kind of discount or added incentive for their uploading (at least for a period of time)?

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At one time, I believe David mentioned the possibility of converting the Foundation to a Non-Profit entity to circumvent the legal restrictions of a Foundation.

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Oh right, sorry, I thought you were talking about heavyweight farmers.

Interesting proposition. But doesn’t that discriminate? Incumbency advantage? Who decides what data is worthy of a discount?

Inflation is a poor word to use for what is happening. It implies a reduction in the worth. The SNT will be more valuable with more data being stored since its worth comes from the use of such data.

Speculators can fight over fiat value, but the token itself is worth more to people with the more data stored.

Also you need to start putting some approximate figures to what you are basing your speculation on. How many tokens will be farmed per day that the core devs (not foundation) will get the equivalent of 5% of the amount farmed. Is it 1000 tokens, 10,000 tokens, 100,000 tokens or what. At least what magnitude you are basing your speculation. of what may happen on

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Yes, and without the disgusting example of the FileCoin’s copy, we could pretend to have all the time in the world. Now this topic needs to be discussed again. Apparently there is rubbish with $ 5 million waiting to steal people’s long-term work …