"5 Eyes" governments want to ban encryption

Don’t these people ever learn this is utterly impractical? You’d think after the ransomware attacks and May losing her credibility that they’d take the hint.


Aus AG who thinks computers are adding machines. The Prime Minister knows a lot better but is being forced by politics to take this stance.

I wonder how the politics will look if they succeed and start having all their essential services hacked? Or if there is a rash of ransomware demands in the civilian populace?

Its ironic that the current Prime Minister used Wickr when getting support to topple the previous Prime Minister, and made no apologies when it was revealed that he did so.

They like their privacy, but demand no one else is allowed. Try and do any FOI on their meta data and it is blocked immediately, but they can have ours stored for 2 years and available for the ABCs to vacuum up into their databases (forever)

Now they want our private conversations to be available to them. You know, the things that humans since forever have done, and that is had private conversations between each other.

SAFE can’t happen quick enough to combat this overreach of governments. They are not even pretending anymore that they govern for the people, and openly doing things that show they govern for themselves and those in power over us serfs.

And of course we know that even if they outlawed encryption completely they would not get the real crims and just the stupid ones. The crims/terrorists don’t follow the law and use out of band encryption anyhow.


The thing is outlawing encryption is not practical. It’s not only immoral and violates a dozen human rights but it’s also technically impractical if not utterly impossible to do. Every attempt to actually pull it off has failed miserably.

This is more likely how it will play out. They won’t defeat end to end encryption, but they will concentrate on being able to hack at either end.


Another piece on this from Cory Doctorow:

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Crazy thought here: Do we have like a snail mail sourceforge? Or somewhere we can snail mail in to have maidsafe physically mailed to a user on a thumb drive? It might actually come to that.

At this time it seems the Australian government is wanting legislative access to messages unencrypted that pass through the major internet companies like Apple, microsoft, etc. The Prime Minister but not the AG know backdooring encryption is a disaster waiting to happen. There has been a lot of reinterpreting what has been said and people forget these memos are written by a technology illiterate (the AG) and he thinks in terms of the companies dial in the level of encryption and have full access to unencrypted communications. He has NFI that encryption is maths and thinks its like a box you put into your internet Pipe.

So you have to read those memos in those terms and why the PM says its not about backdoors but getting the companies to work with the government to supply unencrypted messages to the government. Since terrorism is a smoke screen for their desire to spy on their citizens, they only really want to know what is being sent across the major companies.

@Blindsite2k, we will only need the sha3 hashes and still just download the program. If it came to the point that we cannot then those governments will also be opening all the mail with USB sticks in them. Boarder patrol already do so on a random basis or for mail from certain locations/countries.

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Border patrol is one thing. But a determined pirate network using hard disk file transfer (and by hard disk I’m refering into any removable media including but not limited to usb sticks, cds and dvds, floppy drives, external hard drives, micro sd cards, and so on) would be very hard and expensive to track. You might search someone’s phone but are you going to search through the micro sd card on their high fidelity camera at an interstate border crossing as well? Are you going to search through every piece of local mail sent? Not to mention you don’t actually need to send them the usb stick. You could do what the drug dealers do and hide the USB stick somewhere and then just send them the GPS coordinants on paper. Even use old fashioned cryptography or hide it in the artwork somehow, I mean it is paper after all, you can draw pictures and what not. Hell you could get creative and use smoke signals or morse code to sent lat long coords. Just saying there are ways around mail searches. Nevermind the fact that if people started to have their mail searched they’d either be utterly zombified brainwashed or they’d be pissed as hell.

You don’t need to understand high level encryption to understand that if you make a copy of your housekey that you are essentially compromising your security. You also don’t need to be a brilliant cryptography expert to understand the concept of a lockpick. If someone can pick the lock then someone WILL pick the lock to your door. Or they could just throw a rock through the window. That is essentially what hacking and cracking is. Don’t have a key to the door? Can’t pick the lock? Let’s see if the window can be smashed. Aha! Found a zero day exploit!

It also doesn’t take an IT tech to understand that if something precious in your house can be lured out and captured one then gains access to the rest of the house, or if one can disguise oneself as one belonging in the house one can also gain access to said valuable item. Knock, knock, car salesman. Is your Daddy home little girl? Oh he’ll be right home. Can I come in and wait? Boom. Ransomeware attack via phishing.

Someone needs to sit down with these politicians and explain cryptography to them in 20th or maybe 19th century terms.

They do regularly in Australia. They will even take your laptop for further investigations and you have to come back to get it or if they are really sus about you you wait in their holding room till they decide to arrest you, keep the laptop longer or give it back and let you go. Same for camera SD cards, phones etc

EDIT: this is for entry/exit points to/from Australia. Nothing between each state of Australia.

GPS scavanger hunt it is then. Bloody government.

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Australian Government has taken the next step to introducing legislation weaking encryption.

They now claim that a law requiring companies to have a system to decrypt end-to-end encrypted communications is not a back door. They now claim a back door is an unintentional (or hacked) ability to intercept/read encrypted communications.

The current step is to hit the media and clam that they have to have these intrusive laws to hear our private communications to be able to apply offline laws to the online world. To be honest I didn’t know I had to provide my private offline talks with others to the security forces just in case I was a bad person.

The next step is to word it so that the lame opposition wants to have great powers than what the government is going to propose. The opposition has already said they want to ban Tor and Bitcoin.


It creates some risk, but I’m still confident SAFEnetwork will be immune to this kind of interference for long enough for it to become ubiquitous, because the more governments try this route the more individuals and businesses will be motivated to adopt SAFEnetwork. :simple_smile:

Fingers crossed anyway!


I’m more confident that if governments go down this route it’ll be more like painting a “Rape Me” sign on their bank accounts and SysOps for hackers. And let’s face it if you’re going to blackmail someone with ransomware it doesn’t much matter if bitcoin is illegal or not.

In their eyes the beauty of this method is that they don’t need to worry about banks etc because they can compel the banks to hand over the unencrypted information now. So they don’t change https encryption, and just compel the companies to cough up the unencrypted data. The problem at the moment is that they need a court order (warrant) to get the info and a lot just isn’t kept now. Now they want it without a warrant and to hand it over on request and to retain the data.

The real attack is against end to end encryption and VPN. They want companies that provide end-to-end encryption to back-door (real definition) their software so that the company can on request hand over unencrypted communications. This now includes hardware manufacturers (good luck with that Brandis). But of course the government is redefining “back-door” in legislation to be something else than what they want the companies to do.

It will be crackers delight for end-to-end encryption and all our routers etc. Imagine all the bugs introduced so the hardware manufacturers can extract communications that have occurred through the router, phone, etc. We still don’t know if it includes historical comms, Brandis prob wants the communications retained in the devices, so I guess we aussies will then have to pay 10 times for our routers since they contain a NAS of at least 50TB to keep 2 years of comms.

Guess who will get a SBC and program his own router s/w :wink:

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Australia sounds like a totalitarian hive mind state from what I’ve heard and it’s going to start paying hard for it if it starts compromising software.

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We are following the UK with variations. The UK has been going totalitarian for a while.

And the politicians will tell you its the companies and not the government who will be changing the software, so when it goes all up in smoke they can claim to be clean and its the companies who are to blame.

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Classic but the companies were just complying with government regulations. Typical he said she said.

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