21's big idea......$75M of funding

I wouldn’t say meaningless because I was agreeing with @Tim87 that micro payments on the blockchain as I understood it does not make sense.

Also, I don’t always have to understand and/or agree with everything in a post in order to like it as long as I can pull something useful and valuable from it. Your post is a perfect example of this.

Thank you for helping to increase my knowledge of how micro payments could in fact work on the blockchain.

One thing I do not like in any way shape or form is 21 inc and I hope safecoin can be made divisible quickly in order to help us compete with their micro macro ripe off.

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Even if it only applies to topics…

On topic: 21 didn’t invent the lightning network, and it is not clear what they actually bring to the table that others could not do.

Safecoin doesn’t need to be made divisible. Just create other coins exchangeable for Safecoin at a fixed rate (some multiple of ten) with a simple bot.

For example, millisafes (ms) or microsafes (μs) exchangeable with Safecoin at 10^3 and 10^6 respectively.

The bot instantly pays out, say, 999 ms for one Safecoin, and one Safecoin for 1,000 ms. A really simple webpage like shapeshift.io. There’s a simple business model there. :slight_smile:

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So much misinformation here. The thing is if 21 pull of what they are trying to do it will be amazing.

It will lock bitcoin down as hard money via billions of devices doing a type of altruistic mining. Not for the value of the coin but to give every off the shelf device a digital, unforgeable, passport to
the single point of truth, the blockchain.

If you cant see the benefit in this, its the reason you were not handed 75M.

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That’s your problem. The fact that you don’t like A isn’t an argument against A.
And why are you linking A with B when there aren’t even related or let alone competing projects/products?

As @MaxSan said they’re headed in the right direction and Regular Joe should be happy that they’re doing this on the investors’ dime (same as MaidSafe, actually, but in case of MaidSafe most of us at some point or another were indirectly funding the effort with our money).

If they fail, fine. If it works out, great. I’m sure noone will use it for other purposes than to better himself/herself, so I can you have a socialist envy issue.
Since you’re obsessed with 21-SAFE “competition”, maybe you can share you thoughts about the economics of streaming SAFE contents and getting paid via 21’s streaming service. Is that going to be good for SAFE or not? Let us know.

Where you not making a similar link in your quote below?

Am I not allowed to express my likes and dislikes on this forum?

I am not a economist so I’ll pass thank you!

In a different topic related to one particular common feature of the both, yes.
Never said they’re competing products. VISA is also used for payments, but it’s not a SAFE Network competitor.

Am I not allowed to comment on your expression of your likes and dislikes?

If you think you understand IT better, you’re mistaken.

In any case, since this very topic appeared 14 months ago, those who were negative and indeed hostile to 21, bitcoin and their solution have been proven wrong over and over again. Love your negativity, sir!

Really? Please share these links.

Do you believe I am being negative towards those who support and may profit off the 21 windfall? By no means! No judgement here! Many a times I’ve invested in companies that do not perfectly match my ideologies. Even the SAFE Network has flaws like most everything else in this world. There are just some companies that do more harm than good and I am grateful for the free market that allows for healthy competition against them.

[quote=“janitor, post:12, topic:8149, full:true”] More news about the useless 21.co (as per our crypto gurus from this topic) - they’ve made a smart move by also making the s/w available. So those who aren’t very technical can get the little thing, and others can mess around with the s/w.

How to install: just open up your terminal and type: sudo https://curl 21.co | shTo review the code before running, run curl https://21.co | less

The s/w currently supports:

Mac: OS X 10.7 and above
Linux: x86 and x86_64 systems
ARM: armv6 and above

A Windows version is coming out soon.

I’m thinking about repurposing one of my ARM devices for this thing. [/quote] (emphasis mine)

So make your profits sir! But please allow me to continue obsessively promote my beloved SAFE to be as competitive as possible to secure my profits here.

LOL! How about

One thing I do not like in any way shape or form is 21 inc

Or the award-winning (10 likes) comment:

They either need a solution to bitcoin’s problems (mining centralisation, poor transaction throughput and latency, energy inefficiency etc.) or they are going to fail.
The bitcoin community seem to be making zero progress addressing these issues. The only tech I’ve heard of that claims a solution is side-chains which are years away I think

(As I shared in the other 21 topic, micro-payment channels can already be used).

Or this (emphasis mine):

I don’t see how their tiny chip can do anything useful. I haven’t done any analysis, but this is now the problem with bitcoin.

Or this complete misunderstanding of the direction in which 21.co was headed.

What I notice here is not using the blockchain technology as a technology to achieve the objectives, but rather using the blockchain to do some things

Their platform has the most apps that do things for users, in their own environment.

Fair enough, I don’t object to anyone securing their profits.

I’ve said this several times: I use my systems to run services for the benefit of the community. If I can add 21.co’s apps to my existing h/w, it’s no extra cost to me. Why not? I’ll do the same with SAFE s/w.

If 21.co becomes successful, it is more, not less likely that SAFE will also be successful.

I could not find any explanation of how a CPU/GPU based mining system, as would be the case with the purely software option, is going to mine any amount of Bitcoin in competition with warehouses of ASICs.

I can’t see you are going to mine any Bitcoin with an ARM (or even a leg) in competiton with ASIC farms.

One more time: I don’t care to mine anything. I want to have those bitcoin apps and contribute to the community.

And FYI the real breakthrough in 21’s idea is not that anyone gets rich from mining, but that users can earn few satoshis on their own, which allows them to develop, use and run mainnet apps without going through the hassle of buying BTC on an exchange.
(It’s absolutely hilarious that you and others got a (wrong) opinion about this good mining idea of 21.co, while the old problem of SAFE’s initial funding required to bootstrap new user accounts on SAFE is still unsolved. How about you redirect some of that brainpower to issues that are yet to be solved?) :smiley:

I have no opinion about the feasibility of mining in the way proposed; I said I can’t see how it is going to work. So if you’re so brilliant then maybe you could explain how it will manage to generate even “a few satoshis”.

I do have an opinion about their whole business model, particularly the way overpriced rig, that it is a scam.

Doh…

I mined 300,000 satoshis (0.003 bitcons or 1.05 dollars at today’s face value) in one week

That’s great, because now I can paste this link (that I already pasted above for Safety1st when he complained about the expensive h/w) again and noone can accuse me of spamming: yes, it’s amazing, you can just download their s/w to your own device - it’s free!

OK, you did mine some Satoshis, but probably less than the cost of the electricity to run it for a week. If a $399 rig is being sold to people expecting free money, then it is fraudulent. The economics would be even worse for running a standard PC to do the same, free software or not. I suppose you were part of a pool, and that 21 would own the pool, and collect a percentage of the BTC for you to engage in such a negative income. Unless that is spelled out to people, then it is fraudulent.

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What I said several comments above:

And FYI the real breakthrough in 21’s idea is not that anyone gets rich from mining, but that users can earn few satoshis on their own, which allows them to develop, use and run mainnet apps without going through the hassle of buying BTC on an exchange.

The economics of avoiding the suspected terrorist treatment people get at their local bank branch because of KYC/AML procedures makes this option quite appealing.

It’s not a matter of “getting rich.” They aren’t earning anything if the cost of electricity is greater than the amount gained. And if they aren’t being told that then it’s a fraud.

“Most people” will use an exchange such as Bitstamp, with KYC and all, to buy BTC by credit card.

For picayune amounts such as you suggest, there is no reportage.

You and 21 are conjecturing way too much about how people will react, what they will and won’t do, yadda yadda.

How many times do I have to repeat that one can download the free s/w to a x86 VM and not enable mining (or enable it just enough to earn 10,000 satoshis to bootstrap his home developed app.

Let us know your current proposal about solving the wallet bootstrap problem on SAFE. Clearly you’re an original thinker who easily spots architectural weaknesses and inferior solutions.

So it comes down to bootstrapping with a few Satoshi? That’s what the whole 21 fuss is about?

You keep switching chairs from rig to “free software” and it seems hard to pin down what exactly you’re arguing in favor of.

I was not aware that there was a wallet bootstrap problem on SAFE. Please elucidate while I benefit from your experience and wisdom.

If the Internet of things takes off then all kinds of devices will be sharing data and earning a small fee for that. I think the vision of 21 inc is to enable this ecosystem. I think that’s a bigger part of their plan than mining. Hashing for bitcoin is unlikely to make enough money to pay for energy (although solar is driving down price per-watt quickly) unless billions of chips can somehow be networked to do that. Then again as we approach the end of Moore’s law (as expressed in terms of integrated circuits) massively scaling the number of chips may actually be the future of mining.

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